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Discuss A little "clarification" regarding the current T-Mobile unlocked iPhone offer at the iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1) - Hackint0sh.org; This offer is TIME LIMITED and will ONLY be available until a court makes a ...
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    Default A little "clarification" regarding the current T-Mobile unlocked iPhone offer

    This offer is TIME LIMITED and will ONLY be available until a court makes a final decision.
    The decision is expected within the next two to four weeks due to the urgency of this matter.
    T-Mobile is fighting the current court order, meaning that it is very likely that the unlocked iPhone won't be around for long.
    The price tag for an unlocked iPhone without a contract is 999 Euro.
    As far as I heard, the IMEI numbers of these unlocked iPhones are registered with Apple and iTunes recognizes these "special" iPhones based on the IMEI (otherwise it would show an invalid SIM card message).

    How does this help us? Well, I'm not sure it does. As far as I know, the unlock code is somehow verified each time the unlocked iPhone is connected to iTunes to make sure this code is unique and matching the iPhone's IMEI code. Rumours indicate that this isn't a real unlock (baseband unlocked but still needs a matching code to make the inserted SIM work) but just some sort of code with permits iTunes to recognize an "approved unlocked" iPhone, allowing activation without SIM card verification.

    This sounds very complicated and in fact it is. So even if we put our hands on the unlocked baseband, we still would have to face the difficulties implied by iTunes "verification" which is also active during sync operations and updates/recoveries.

    So don't be too enthusiastic because neither T-Mobile or Apple are stupid.

    Btw: some rumours imply that the whole Vodafone vs T-Mobile clash is some sort of "secret agreement" farce to break Apple's marketing model in Europe because if accepted by telecom companies, it could lead to desaster sooner or later because one large carrier could put their exclusive hands on the most desirable phones.

    Time will tell but don't expect the current unlocked iPhone offer to last forever, I'm pretty sure that sooner or later, there will be a way to cut off customers again.



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    This goes along with what I assumed would be the case: that an un-activated iPhone will use iTunes as before to 'activate'. However instead of demanding the creation of a new account or verifying your current account to activate it will simply check the records with Apple to verify it's an 'unlocked' model. Regardless these phones either need a modified baseband, or will have had some kind of code inserted into it in order for it to allow any SIM to be inserted and to function.

    Therefore if this code can be cracked, it will likely ease the issues we have with the current unlock methods, i.e. a hell of a time upgrading and restoring. Because as we've seen the 'activation' part has been the easiest, thus a hacked lockdownd can be inserted telling iTunes the phone is activated already and therefore no need to bother such as is the case now.

    Regardless of this being a temporary scheme in DE, it's likely to be the scheme that will be introduced officially next week in FR. Lastly selling an item as unlocked and then relocking it again would be a breach of the sales contract and misrepresentation, which do not go unpunished either by the consumer, a competitor or a regulatory authority.
    Last edited by slimnickyy; 11-21-2007 at 06:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 997TT View Post
    This offer is TIME LIMITED and will ONLY be available until a court makes a final decision.
    The decision is expected within the next two to four weeks due to the urgency of this matter.
    T-Mobile is fighting the current court order, meaning that it is very likely that the unlocked iPhone won't be around for long.
    The price tag for an unlocked iPhone without a contract is 999 Euro.
    As far as I heard, the IMEI numbers of these unlocked iPhones are registered with Apple and iTunes recognizes these "special" iPhones based on the IMEI (otherwise it would show an invalid SIM card message).

    How does this help us? Well, I'm not sure it does. As far as I know, the unlock code is somehow verified each time the unlocked iPhone is connected to iTunes to make sure this code is unique and matching the iPhone's IMEI code. Rumours indicate that this isn't a real unlock (baseband unlocked but still needs a matching code to make the inserted SIM work) but just some sort of code with permits iTunes to recognize an "approved unlocked" iPhone, allowing activation without SIM card verification.

    This sounds very complicated and in fact it is. So even if we put our hands on the unlocked baseband, we still would have to face the difficulties implied by iTunes "verification" which is also active during sync operations and updates/recoveries.

    So don't be too enthusiastic because neither T-Mobile or Apple are stupid.

    Btw: some rumours imply that the whole Vodafone vs T-Mobile clash is some sort of "secret agreement" farce to break Apple's marketing model in Europe because if accepted by telecom companies, it could lead to desaster sooner or later because one large carrier could put their exclusive hands on the most desirable phones.

    Time will tell but don't expect the current unlocked iPhone offer to last forever, I'm pretty sure that sooner or later, there will be a way to cut off customers again.
    The stock market was positive about the trial news yesterday.
    The price T-Mobile is asking for the unlocked iphones is inline with the hidden $$ the cellproviders give to apple over the iphone contract life plus some markup from T-mobile.

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    Don't get me wrong, I doubt that T-Mobile re-locks the iPhone if the court decision will be in their favour. They can't do this, it will stay unlocked. I just doubt that this will actually improve the chance to find an unlock for 1.1.2 and/or future versions.
    Since Apple can always check various stuff when connecting the iPhone to iTunes, the IMEI and maybe the baseband/bootloader version are part of it. Since they have a database of subscribers and valid SIM cards/subscriptions, it would be a piece of cake for Apple to identify such units and I honestly doubt that this "unlocked iPhone identification" can be copied for other iPhones since the IMEI wouldn't match, whatever.

    Many people here in the forum seem to believe that with the availability of an unlocked iPhone, we could reverse-engineer the software/firmware and find a "final" solution for all upcoming updates from Apple. I highly doubt it, I don't think that Apple is THAT stupid to allow T-Mobile and Orange F that fast selling an unlocked iPhone without taking precautions. Since Apple prepared a special solution for France anyway, releasing this solution to T-Mobile was a fast and painless thing to do.
    So if somebody wants to buy an unlocked iPhone for 999 Euro just with the idea that it could lead to a final and permanent unlock of other iPhones, I wouldn't do this. I doubt it will work since, like I said, iTunes is one of the major keys in keeping the iPhone "under control".
    Whoever loves the iPhone and just wants to own one hassle-free and who has the money, BUY IT. It may be one of the rare chances to actually get an officially unlocked iPhone.

    CAUTION: it can't be excluded that some clever fraud artists are using this situation to sell people an "officially unlocked" iPhone (which in fact would be probably just a fake official unlock but more of a 1.1.1 unlock with AnySIM. Since the FW version can be changed in the software (you can make a FW 1.1.8 iPhone out of the 1.1.1 iPhone), I would be very careful. I'm not sure if the bb fw version can be changed (faked) too but I wouldn't be surprised.

    Just use your brain: "officially unlocked" iPhones are ONLY available through T-Mobile Germany right now, without a contract they cost 999 Euro. So if someone is selling you one for let's say 750 or 800 Euro or even 900 Euro, he would loose a substantial amount of money. Why would he do that? IF you still think you get a legit offer from somebody, ask for proof. T-Mobile Germany issues a bill with the iPhone's IMEI, etc. The same IMEI is on the back of the iPhone. Faking a T-Mobile bill is already a criminal offense, so I doubt that many sellers will go that far.

    AGAIN: officially unlocked iPhones are ONLY available through T-Mobile Germany right now, shortly later through Orange F too. Cost is 999 Euro.

    There may be the rare situation when a NEW iPhone customer who subscribed to T-Mobile and got an "unlocked" iPhone for 399 Euro only, wants to sell this unlocked phone. Same thing here: ask for a copy of the bill or contract with a IMEI in it. Also make sure this iPhone is REALLY unlocked because ONLY iPhones sold after Nov. 19th are unlocked, customers who subscribed to T-Mobile iPhone contract before that date very likely need to pay 99 Euro to get the unlock.

    T-Mobile stated today that they're going to fight the court order, so expect the current unlocked iPhone to be a LIMITED TIME offer only, you never know.
    The court decision is expected soon (within the next two weeks), so if you want one, get one now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 997TT View Post
    ....... As far as I know, the unlock code is somehow verified each time the unlocked iPhone is connected to iTunes to make sure this code is unique and matching the iPhone's IMEI code. Rumours indicate that this isn't a real unlock (baseband unlocked but still needs a matching code to make the inserted SIM work) but just some sort of code with permits iTunes to recognize an "approved unlocked" iPhone, allowing activation without SIM card verification......
    without beeing disrespective, but i think you are a bit too mutch into conspiracy theories at this point.

    if t-mobile has to sell an iphone "unlocked" it needs to be a "real unlock" for sure, which does not depend on weather you use your iPhone with or without itunes nor on whatever simcard you will swap in whenever you like. so its highly doubtable that the iphone needs a verification through itunes whenever you connect it to it.

    i would guess, and i might also even be proven wrong, that its a simple unlock just like every other phone requires: a code calculated "by apple" using the phones imei. they type it in and "bingo" unlocked. thats all.

    i am thinking about getting one tomorrow to find out myself, but maybe you can hold me back if you can proof me wrong for what i am saying.

    so my question will be: did you get a t-mobile unlocked Iphone by yourself and did you have the chance to actually witness the procedure of unlocking it? do you actually KNOW that you still have to activate it through itunes? and if you have to, doesnt it still indicate that activation and unlocking are two very different processes?

    again, i dont mean to be offensive, i just would like to hear some other opinions on this topic and would really appreciate some more explanations on why you think that it works that way you described above.


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    As the court agreed to a temporary injunction - penalised by 270000 EUR per locked iphone - then one must assume that the court takes the matter seriously and sees some merits in Vodafone arguments.

    Quite clearly, having double pricing undermines the core of the question at hand:

    Is the iPhone subsidized at 399 EUR or not ?

    Obviously t-mobile and also orange 999 EUR pricing for unlocked phones is meant to suggest so. But is it really ?

    As production costs are around 250 USD and the phone is sold without contract at various places for 399USD, 269GBP then the conclusion is: it is not subsidized.


    Surely as a judge one would ask T-mobile what the actual purchase costs of the iphone are.

    It is somewhat unlikely that the purchase costs for ATT, t-mobile, O2 and orange are above 399 EUR/USD,269GBP .It is safe to assume that the carriers buy at 399 EUR or below. Hence the iphone is not subsidized.

    If the iPhone is subsidized then binding it to a contract and having it locked will probably stand up in court.

    If not then T-mobile will have to sell unlocked at 399 EUR - or whatever they charge their locked contract customers.

    In any case it is clear that the judges will not look favourably at the 999 EUR pricing of the unlocked iphone since that undermines the core of their (temporary) decision, namely creating a level playing field.

    Selling the iphone at 999 perpetuates the monopolistic behaviour which is starkly in contrast to what the court intended.

    So IMNSHO t-mobile*s behaviour greately improves the chances that Vodafone will prevail, having locked and unlocked phones sold at a moderate equal price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geejay101 View Post
    As the court agreed to a temporary injunction - penalised by 270000 EUR per locked iphone - then one must assume that the court takes the matter seriously and sees some merits in Vodafone arguments.

    Quite clearly, having double pricing undermines the core of the question at hand:

    Is the iPhone subsidized at 399 EUR or not ?

    Obviously t-mobile and also orange 999 EUR pricing for unlocked phones is meant to suggest so. But is it really ?

    As production costs are around 250 USD and the phone is sold without contract at various places for 399USD, 269GBP then the conclusion is: it is not subsidized.


    Surely as a judge one would ask T-mobile what the actual purchase costs of the iphone are.

    It is somewhat unlikely that the purchase costs for ATT, t-mobile, O2 and orange are above 399 EUR/USD,269GBP .It is safe to assume that the carriers buy at 399 EUR or below. Hence the iphone is not subsidized.

    If the iPhone is subsidized then binding it to a contract and having it locked will probably stand up in court.

    If not then T-mobile will have to sell unlocked at 399 EUR - or whatever they charge their locked contract customers.

    In any case it is clear that the judges will not look favourably at the 999 EUR pricing of the unlocked iphone since that undermines the core of their (temporary) decision, namely creating a level playing field.

    Selling the iphone at 999 perpetuates the monopolistic behaviour which is starkly in contrast to what the court intended.

    So IMNSHO t-mobile*s behaviour greately improves the chances that Vodafone will prevail, having locked and unlocked phones sold at a moderate equal price.
    you forgot to add the 30% of the montly bill to the cost of the iphone.

    it is subsidized, and in a free market everyone is free to sell there product at whatever price thet want.

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    There Will Be No Unlocked Phones @ Germany, Everybody Is Wrong About This, The Only Thing Will Be Avaliable Is To Buy An Iphone (t-mobile) Without 2 Year Contract And That's It, No More, No Unlocked Phones For Others Carriers, Only T-mobile Iphones Without 2 Year Or Timed Contracts... If You Doubt Just Check T-mobile Policy With Htc (windows Mobile Pda). Same Shit..

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    Quote Originally Posted by phelipe View Post
    There Will Be No Unlocked Phones @ Germany, Everybody Is Wrong About This, The Only Thing Will Be Avaliable Is To Buy An Iphone (t-mobile) Without 2 Year Contract And That's It, No More, No Unlocked Phones For Others Carriers, Only T-mobile Iphones Without 2 Year Or Timed Contracts... If You Doubt Just Check T-mobile Policy With Htc (windows Mobile Pda). Same Shit..
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071121/...pple_iphone_dc

    "It will also allow those customers who bought an iPhone since November 19 to unlock the device free of charge so it can be used with other SIM cards..."
    Last edited by veniex; 11-22-2007 at 02:30 AM.

 

 

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