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Discuss iPhone Firmware 1.1.1 *will* lock us out. at the iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1) - Hackint0sh.org; Originally Posted by izim1 bottom line guys. SJ isnt just some "tool" CEO. i dont ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by izim1 View Post
    bottom line guys. SJ isnt just some "tool" CEO. i dont care how good of a hacker you think you are, chances are your not as good as him. he's one of the "OH's" (original hackers) and pretty much everything we're thinking of, chances are, he already thought about it waaaaay before. he wanted the iphone hacked. he wanted it unlocked, and he wants 3rd party app developed for it. he's just not gonna admit to it. he's not intentionally gonna brick anyones iphone. like i said before. he's probably trying to take as many precautions as possible before releasing a firmware that was completed weeks ago. hence the "the update might screw your phone up, we cant be held responsible for it" disclaimer/heads-up......
    I have always wonder if the bug in the baseband (not really sure) is there for hackers to exploit for a software unlock.


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    Well thats not exactly true. A class action lawyer could argue was their a basis for the firmware to do new features or was it on purpose to harm our hardware. If the sole purpose was to harm the hardware, there could be liability.
    And that is the bit it would be a struggle to prove. If the vast majority of iPhones (which are not unlocked at a guess) receive a useful collection of upgrades and bug fixes (which looks to be the case), then the primary intent was obviously not to destroy phones. In reality I do not think it damages the hardware - what it likely does is mess up the firmware to such a state that it cannot be restored (subtle difference I know).

    Seriously though - does anything think that Apple wants a whole pile of people dialing up their support lines and making warranty claims? Odds are good that even they will not be able to tell what has happened if the only thing you have done is load software. They will 'know' but not know, if you know what I mean.

    Cheers, Chris W.

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    There are several aspects we should consider:

    1) Why is Apple making such statements: because they want to protect their hefty deals with the carriers for the exclusivity of being the only carrier with iPhone in different countries. It's just about money. There are still several markets for them to explore and being lenient about the unlock process is negative for their negotiation.

    2) How serious are they into the cat and mouse game? They will make some efforts, but I'm not sure it will be impossible to overcome. They want the best of both worlds: unlocked iPhones means tapping into territories that they would not reach in the near future and boost iPhone sales. The same applies to applications, even for those that are running locked iPhones. They are not stupid.

    3) A firmware upgrade over a unlocked iPhone will brick it? I doubt it will happen. The unlock rewrites the baseband firmware and all they can do is rewrite the baseband back, locking it again. Irreparable damage? I fail to see how this could happen. For me the statement is vague, non-technical and aimed at scarring people from doing it, or at least showing Apple's partners that they are "doing something".

    4) There are some things that will remain constant, at least this version of the iPhone: the recovery process and the connector. It's fixed and the recovery it's just a bootstrap. So some things will remain the same in the communication protocol. the iPod touch may already have a different recovery, but if Apple can use it to change the code inside the phone, so can others.

    5) Signed applications: it is possible, but there are some issues and workarounds. It is possible to patch the code to allow more that one public key (Apple's and the "other"). But the ARM processor is not powerful enough to spend most of the time checking for signatures in every piece of software that runs. Also there is the quick and dirty approach: a patch to replace the Apple key and resign all signed binaries and replace them. It is doable.

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    Reuters article here: Apple says unlocking programs can damage iPhone

    Contains this gem:
    Schiller said that at least two unlocking programs, iUnlock and Anysim, can cause the iPhone to stop working once the software is updated.
    Hmm, interesting - I wonder why he didn't mention the IPSF software?

    Cheers, Chris W.

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    Default UK 2 Cents worth

    I have a US purchased iphone,and plan to hold fire on unlocking it until after the 1.1.1
    Last edited by theliksta; 02-29-2008 at 02:06 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by izim1 View Post
    bottom line guys. SJ isnt just some "tool" CEO. i dont care how good of a hacker you think you are, chances are your not as good as him. he's one of the "OH's" (original hackers) and pretty much everything we're thinking of, chances are, he already thought about it waaaaay before. he wanted the iphone hacked. he wanted it unlocked, and he wants 3rd party app developed for it. he's just not gonna admit to it. he's not intentionally gonna brick anyones iphone. like i said before. he's probably trying to take as many precautions as possible before releasing a firmware that was completed weeks ago. hence the "the update might screw your phone up, we cant be held responsible for it" disclaimer/heads-up......
    Steve Jobs has never been much of a hacker. He's a businessman. Woz was the hacker, Steve just figured out a way to sell his ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw@thelastword.co.nz View Post
    And that is the bit it would be a struggle to prove. If the vast majority of iPhones (which are not unlocked at a guess) receive a useful collection of upgrades and bug fixes (which looks to be the case), then the primary intent was obviously not to destroy phones. In reality I do not think it damages the hardware - what it likely does is mess up the firmware to such a state that it cannot be restored (subtle difference I know).

    Seriously though - does anything think that Apple wants a whole pile of people dialing up their support lines and making warranty claims? Odds are good that even they will not be able to tell what has happened if the only thing you have done is load software. They will 'know' but not know, if you know what I mean.

    Cheers, Chris W.
    I would love to see a class action lawsuit. Can you imagine the stuff that would be revealed if you make their their chief of technology tesify in a court of law, but all this is a little ahead of ourselves. Let's wait until the software comes out first.

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    1) Apple is surely contractually OBLIGATED to (try to) stop hacking. This is certainly a part of the deal with AT&T, otherwise AT&T would never have conceded to all Apple's demands (in fact all the unlocking is probably slowing down the introduction of the iPhone to places like Canada). AT&T would be N*U*T*S not to require some basic MANDATORY due diligence from Apple for security and deterrence against unlocking, since it is commonplace in the phone business.

    2) iPhone unlockers are a trivially small (but vocal) community. Apple could afford to lose them, but it would be bad publicity.

    3) If you voided your warrantly by unlocking, don't be a crybaby about what happens next. Those who did the hack took a calculated risk against Apple's policy. It's probably quite safe, but it is not reasonable to expect Apple to support the hacked phones, to honor the warranty, or to even appreciate such customers.

    4) There is no assurance about what will or will not be hacked in the future. My guess is that things will not be closed up permanently, but there ARE hardware devices that were "secured" even though they were once hacked (bank machines, replaytv, tivo, directv). These questions about what will happen in the future are ridiculous. In the furture, you will die, a better phone will be developed and the universe will eventually experience heat death: stay tuned to find out the other wrinkles in the story.
    Last edited by dude5; 09-25-2007 at 03:21 AM.

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    Question

    ok I have an idea. but Iím not sure if it will work till it comes out.
    ok here goes > if you have already downloaded the restore 1.02 file to your pc and you have a 1.1.1firmware in your iphone, couldnít you just put the phone in restore(recovery) mode and select the file to restore to and do a downgrade or no?
    when you click on restore and press either shift or ctrl ( Iím not sure ) it will ask you to select the file and you could browse to the fw and select it.
    I havenít tried to do this from 1.02 to 1.0 but it might be possible cause if you could get into bootloader / restore mode even if the phone isnít jailbreak ( power + home )I think you should be able to force downgrade, but hey that my opinion and obviously we wont find out till it comes out

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    If you dont buy music...and just DL. Then not much to worry about.


    Just dont upgrade and wait for the devTeam to sort it out.

    I think with our support, virtual and $, they will work it out.



 

 

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