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Discuss [1.1.3] Ziphone 2.4 forces bootloader downgrade when unlocking? at the iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1) - Hackint0sh.org; Originally Posted by trant Silly question, but does this affect users of the GUI? If ...
  1. #21
    Professional Array Vigilantes's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by trant View Post
    Silly question, but does this affect users of the GUI?

    If a user chooses Jailbreak, Activate and Unlock but does NOT choose downgrade bootloader from the Advanced menu, does the BL still get downgraded?

    Thanks.

    Used Ziphone 2.4 MAC GUI version and still baseband at 4.6


  2. #22
    Zf_
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    Quote Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post
    Can someone who can get in touch with zibree, to ask him to remove the bootloader downgrading from his -Z switch?
    Well tough luck, if Z could be reasoned into doing something, I guess we'd have noticed by now ...

  3. #23
    Amazingly Knowledgeable Array bezman's Avatar

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    no he will release another cynical photo on his blog, and say that we got what we asked for or desverved and his 'product' never hurt any iphones...


    or he may man up and take it on the chin and surprise even me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hal9000mx View Post
    So, what's the big deal with the BL downgrade? The iphone is working fine, isn't it? I personally find the BL 3.9 much better than the 4.x. You can do much more things on this BL than the latest one.

    And i have one question, it there any iphone functionality / feature that you lose by downgrading the BL to 3.9?
    Quote Originally Posted by ridderdk View Post
    Please, think twice before posting such statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by filouchke View Post
    yeah, there is a thing in BL 3.9 that makes people not read the previous posts in a thread

    Why won't anyone answer hal9000mx's question seriously? I think it's a reasonable question. There's nothing in this thread that says whether/not the iPhone loses any functionality by downgrading to BL 3.9.

    I'll try to answer, based on my experience:

    Given the fact that all pre-1.1.2 iPhones that have been upgraded to 1.1.3 also have BL 3.9, then it seems that anything those phones can do can also be done by a 1.1.3 OTB 'downgraded to BL 3.9' iPhone.

    For example, I've got a 1.0.2 OTB 8GB upgraded to 1.1.3, and a 1.1.3 OTB 16GB iPhone. Both unlocked via ZiPhone, and both now have BL 3.9 (1.1.3 OTB was downgraded to BL 3.9, the 1.0.2 OTB already had BL 3.9). Both phones work fine with Google Maps (including new 'locate me' feature of Google Maps), both work with YouTube, Yahoo Mail, etc. I see no difference in functionality - and I see no 'loss' in functionality from my original BL 4.6 1.1.3 OTB 16GB iPhone after the BL downgrade.

    Edit: BUT, I have real problems with the new ZiPhone (2.4) automatically deciding to downgrade your BL without letting you know that will happen. I used ZiPhone 2.2 and specifically chose to downgrade the BL - it was my choice, not Zibri's.

    - Paulb

  5. #25
    Amazingly Knowledgeable Array bezman's Avatar

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    tampering with the bootloader may be bad because in this case its an unwanted change to your/my phone (what if i just blatantly don't want to downgrade it LOL)

    what if power goes out, the usb plug detaches or some other thing happens, and it bricks your phone (a risk someone who IS or WANTS to do this can/is willing to take)

    also because it may have been updated for a reason (WE think it is to lock hackers out - but really, i am sure it is more power efficient, more secure and a host of other reaons presented by the manufacturer), maybe a hardware change is present in the 4.6 phones, i am only speculating, but there is no need to justify something thats done against someones will with their property/
    Last edited by bezman; 02-21-2008 at 12:07 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bezman View Post
    tampering with the bootloader may be bad because in this case its an unwanted change to your/my phone (what if i just blatantly don't want to downgrade it LOL)

    what if power goes out, the usb plug detaches or some other thing happens, and it bricks your phone (a risk someone who IS or WANTS to do this can/is willing to take)

    also because it may have been updated for a reason (WE think it is to lock hackers out - but really, i am sure it is more power efficient, more secure and a host of other reaons presented by the manufacturer), maybe a hardware change is present in the 4.6 phones, i am only speculating, but there is no need to justify something thats done against someones will with their property/
    I was trying to answer the specific question: what feature/functionality do you lose by downgrading the BL to 3.9.

    I agree that downgrading the BL is a risky process - power loss could cause 'bricking' (although, there's supposedly a 'boot rom' in the BB's CPU that presumably can be used to recover a trashed boot loader - I don't know if that's the case, though).

    As far as features/functionality, consider this: if I purchase an 8GB iPhone today, I'll get 1.1.3 with BL 4.6 and baseband 4.03. If I purchased a 1.0.2 OTB several months ago, and upgrade to 1.1.3 (still 'locked' to AT&T, and NOT jailbroken), I'll have 1.1.3 with BL 3.9 and baseband 4.03. Since end users don't know what BL revision is in these phones, they are 'identical' as far as they are concerned (and as far as any 'version' info shown on the screen).

    If Apple decided to release some new 'feature/functionality' that would *not* work on my 1.0.2 phone that's been upgraded to 1.1.3, I'd be pissed (as would quite a few more end users). I'm not talking about users who jailbroke/unlocked their phones, I'm talking about 'legit' customers who have faithfully followed Apple's upgrade path.

    Now, if Apple decided to release new features/functionality for, let's say, the 16GB 1.1.3 OTB phone, then that would be a bit more understandable - maybe that new feature required extra storage.

    And, of course, if a future phone comes out with completely new hardware (3G or whatever), it's understandable that it could have different features.

    But, until Apple starts advertising a new 8GB phone as being 'different' from an 'old' one, then users will expect that both can be software upgraded to the same functionality.


    That's at least how I look at it.

    And, again, I'm not trying to justify the fact that ZiPhone 2.4 auto-downgrades your BL to 3.9 - I strongly disagree with his (apparent) decision to do this. I think something as drastic as a BL downgrade should be the user's choice.

    - Paulb
    Last edited by oz_paulb; 02-21-2008 at 12:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridderdk View Post
    Please, think twice before posting such statement.
    Sorry man, i was talking about MY preferences. if you differ to them post yours. But i still can say what i think is better.

    If you know what functionality is lost in a phone with FW 1.1.3 and BL 3.9 vs. one with the same FW and BL 4.x, please, feel free to post it.
    Last edited by hal9000mx; 02-21-2008 at 12:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oz_paulb View Post
    I was trying to answer the specific question: what feature/functionality do you lose by downgrading the BL to 3.9.

    I agree that downgrading the BL is a risky process - power loss could cause 'bricking' (although, there's supposedly a 'boot rom' in the BB's CPU that presumably can be used to recover a trashed boot loader - I don't know if that's the case, though).

    As far as features/functionality, consider this: if I purchase an 8GB iPhone today, I'll get 1.1.3 with BL 4.6 and baseband 4.03. If I purchased a 1.0.2 OTB several months ago, and upgrade to 1.1.3 (still 'locked' to AT&T, and NOT jailbroken), I'll have 1.1.3 with BL 3.9 and baseband 4.03. Since end users don't know what BL revision is in these phones, they are 'identical' as far as they are concerned (and as far as any 'version' info shown on the screen).

    If Apple decided to release some new 'feature/functionality' that would *not* work on my 1.0.2 phone that's been upgraded to 1.1.3, I'd be pissed (as would quite a few more end users). I'm not talking about users who jailbroke/unlocked their phones, I'm talking about 'legit' customers who have faithfully followed Apple's upgrade path.

    Now, if Apple decided to release new features/functionality for, let's say, the 16GB 1.1.3 OTB phone, then that would be a bit more understandable - maybe that new feature required extra storage.

    And, of course, if a future phone comes out with completely new hardware (3G or whatever), it's understandable that it could have different features.

    But, until Apple starts advertising a new 8GB phone as being 'different' from an 'old' one, then users will expect that both can be software upgraded to the same functionality.


    That's at least how I look at it.

    And, again, I'm not trying to justify the fact that ZiPhone 2.4 auto-downgrades your BL to 3.9 - I strongly disagree with his (apparent) decision to do this. I think something as drastic as a BL downgrade should be the user's choice.

    - Paulb
    Paul I am in agreement that ziphone shouldn't be downgrading BL's without explicit consent.

    What I think is the issue is that changing the BL is an unnecessary step for most users out there that just want to a/jb/u an iphone to use. The ONLY thing you lose is native GPS functionality on googlemaps, which is EASILY solved with navizon or locateme.

    Even with the MAJOR risk of bricking during BL modification aside, there is also the issue of 'restorability'. I think with any a/jb/u procedure that goes south, you can restore again in itunes to a 'virgin' 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB and take it to apple for any hardware problems, and they would be none the wiser to your hacking. With a 3.9BL on 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB phones they know for a fact you hacked it and won't warranty it. On a restored/fresh phone they can't know you hacked it and it should be easier to get them to fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post
    Paul I am in agreement that ziphone shouldn't be downgrading BL's without explicit consent.

    What I think is the issue is that changing the BL is an unnecessary step for most users out there that just want to a/jb/u an iphone to use. The ONLY thing you lose is native GPS functionality on googlemaps, which is EASILY solved with navizon or locateme.

    Even with the MAJOR risk of bricking during BL modification aside, there is also the issue of 'restorability'. I think with any a/jb/u procedure that goes south, you can restore again in itunes to a 'virgin' 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB and take it to apple for any hardware problems, and they would be none the wiser to your hacking. With a 3.9BL on 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB phones they know for a fact you hacked it and won't warranty it. On a restored/fresh phone they can't know you hacked it and it should be easier to get them to fix it.
    So if i understand well, you are telling me that a FW 1.1.3 with BL 3.9 cannot use the "Find me" functionality in google maps? f so, that happend with the iphones that came with BL 3.9 OTB and upgrade to the lastest FW? Will they not have that functionality either?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post
    What I think is the issue is that changing the BL is an unnecessary step for most users out there that just want to a/jb/u an iphone to use. The ONLY thing you lose is native GPS functionality on googlemaps, which is EASILY solved with navizon or locateme.
    The most recent version of locateme requires WiFi to find your current location - even if you have a good EDGE connection. Google Maps does not. At least that's what I have found. I want to use the 'where am I now' functionality when on the road - where I don't necessarily have a WiFi connection (but have EDGE).

    I ran Navizon when it first came out, and uninstalled it almost immediately. It would completely lock-up my iPhone (not always, but often), requiring a reboot. Also, it was often very inaccurate (Google maps seems pretty solid, as far as getting close to where I really am). It was an early version of Navizon, so maybe things have gotten better.




    Quote Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post
    Even with the MAJOR risk of bricking during BL modification aside, there is also the issue of 'restorability'. I think with any a/jb/u procedure that goes south, you can restore again in itunes to a 'virgin' 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB and take it to apple for any hardware problems, and they would be none the wiser to your hacking. With a 3.9BL on 1.1.2/1.1.3OTB phones they know for a fact you hacked it and won't warranty it. On a restored/fresh phone they can't know you hacked it and it should be easier to get them to fix it.
    This is probably true. I've been lucky so far with a/jb/u on two phones (and a few friends have also had success/no problems).

    I personally wanted the new Google maps feature, and took the risk of BL 3.9 downgrade.

    I agree that if you don't want the Google maps locate feature, it may be best to stick with BL 4.6. But, my understanding is that this leaves you with baseband 4.02 (instead of 4.03) running with firmware 1.1.3. We have no idea whether/not there is some hidden dependency on baseband 4.03+ when running 1.1.3 (1.1.3 could require 4.03 or higher for all features). It seems to work OK, but there could be issues (for example: maybe some of the reported problems with phone signal going to zero then back again are related to this?)


    I guess it comes down to this: we're all taking risks by messing with things in a non-Apple-approved way. And as long as apps like ZiPhone give us a choice (when it comes to *unreversable* mods like BB downgrade), then that's fine. The lack of a choice is a problem.

    - Paulb


 

 
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