Originally Posted by Korangulation

There is. It is also unique for every iPhone, likely tied to the IMEI number. It is called the NCK code. It's how iPhones are officially unlocked in France (or for that matter, any GSM phone). It's not likely that this will be a method of unlocking phones anytime soon.

Is there a way to find the NCK code on a iPhone or is it just apple who has them in their database?
I mean i understand that finding the NCK is like impossible but still, just wanted to know...

Originally Posted by boz

Not exactly, Apple's Tiger was seeded on azureus before it was presented for retail or even presented to the public at all (if i remember correctly)

As was Leopard. In fact, there's been a bunch of leaks in the past, software and hardware, even from Apple. I don't think that Apple mean for these leaks to occur (those that do probably have tin foil hats ready) but I do believe they spin it for marketing purposes.

In regards to lawyers not jumping on this yet. Well, the leak did occur at a very oppurtune moment actually. A lot of people (including lawyers) are having time off for the holidays and quite frankly, it's not just a simple matter of sending a cease and desist letter left and right. First you have to assess the damages and then take proper action.

In fact, part of the reason for not showing the about dialog with version numbers might be that this information is sensitive in a way not only that it might help reveal the source, but also in that it might result in a lawsuit for spreading confidential information (in house version numbers, code names, whatever).

Originally Posted by tiny_r

I hear what you are saying, but you have to remember that Tiger was seed to developers for beta testing. There is no seeding of iphone updates (although it is possible to a select few) at the moment simply because Apple have not released SDK.

Actually, you don't know that. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to develop an SDK but not actively reaching out to third party developers to try it out. First off, the SDK is a public matter since, well, it's going to be public. This means that it needs testing and it'd be foolish to test it using only in house developers. If you have any experience developing software professionaly, this is key. For the SDK to be properly tested, you also need to seed development hardware (iPhone) and the target firmware (1.1.3).

It'd be foolish to release a public SDK that hasn't gone the round with real life non-Apple developers. Apple wouldn't do this, I'm sure, nor would any other high profile tech company (except for perhaps Oracle *snickers*).

Also, it'd be silly to release new software to the public saying: "Here, you can - in theory - do this and that with the new third party so and so", without releasing the third party so and so. Sure, pitching is good and sound, but you don't sell pitches to customers, you sell concrete products. And Apple likes being concrete. Apple never announces ideas, they announce products. And announcing the idea of products along with this new firmware is just silly.

Therefore, I think you're flat out wrong.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Therefore the iphone updates remain completely in house at the moment. There is no seeding for beta testing before public release. Even if a developer had it, why would they risk becoming blacklisted by Apple if they were ever found out for revealing! I just not convinced this is the update!

You're absolutely true, but it wouldn't be the first time this happens. Leaks occur all the time, even though there's much at stake by leaking it. The fear of repercussions also explains why this wasn't released to the general public. If the software is indeed watermarked, then the company responsible is royally screwed. This might also be one of the reasons why there hasn't been takedown orders (read above for other theories), to try and smoke 'em out.

Originally Posted by Jesus Diaz

Says who? You?

Jesus, please, if you have more (safe) information, do tell us.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Just how great would this update to the iPhone be?

Really its not that spectacular when you take a step back and look. Yes these features would be very nice, multi recipient txting, locator etc..., but are they that attractive and will they appeal to the masses?

Well, the locate me feature might actually be more than what you see. Imagine a third party developed GPS for the iPhone. That's a very real possibility and would work well with the new locate me feature, effectively allowing the third party to hook into the already great mapping app that iPhone provides.

Multi recepient texting should have been there from day one, so I won't comment that.

The third party app support is potentially a HUGELY attractive feature. Consider this. Pretty much every iPhone user use iTunes to sync their devices. If Apple announces that they have sold 5 million iPhones, that's 5 million potential customers for third party developers. They don't need to develop deployment scenarios, iTunes already provides that! EVERY single third party app sold through iTunes will be available INSTANTLY to EVERY iPhone user. This IS huge. Just look at the popularity of jailbreaking your iPhone/iTouch. Hundreds of thousands have done this. It's evident that users wants this and to be able to remove the uncertainty and doubt of jailbreaking and replacing that with the safety of installing through iTunes, officially, IS a HUGE improvement for the iPhone. Do take a step back and contemplate it for yourself, it might very well take the cellphone revolution to a whole other level.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Prove that there is beta testers for iphone updates apart for Apple themselves.

I'll say something silly now, but I think it must be said: prove that there's not. I know the the burden of evidence lies on us that believe that there are beta testers for the SDK (and subsequently the iPhone firmware), but still.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Apple have been very clear that they will release the SDK in Feb to developers.

Yes, but that doesn't at all remove the possibility of them pre-releasing it to selected developers. In fact, this is more likely than not, given how the industry works. Apple's lips are tightly sealed, but they know better than to try and do everything on their own. Apple, like any other business, has to work together with others on a whole lot of things.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Knowing how Apple operates it is unlikely that they have seeded anything to do with one of their key products. They will in Time, but at the moment it is very unlikely.

This is just a silly remark. Honestly, do you believe this yourself? Would you say the same about OS X, another key product? If not then do ponder for a moment what OS they are running on the iPhone. Even thought it might not be the whole enchillada, it really is a version of OS X. Not seeding it to third party developers when they have clearly announced third party support to be included is just plain stupid. Software doesn't develop itself and it takes time. Given the time between the SDK announcement (October) and the keynote (Jan), I'd say that there's plenty of time for selected experienced OS X software vendors to release third party software come keynote day, including testing. You don't just release an SDK and hope for third party apps to magically appear from day one. And every day you don't get to sell these apps through iTunes or Apple Store is revenue lost for Apple.

I'm still fully convinced that they will announce third party applicaiton availability come jan 15th, and I wouldn't be shocked if the new firmware is released prior to this to deal with the (possible) onslaught of iPhone users wanting to try it out.

Originally Posted by macke

This is just a silly remark. Honestly, do you believe this yourself? Would you say the same about OS X, another key product? If not then do ponder for a moment what OS they are running on the iPhone. Even thought it might not be the whole enchillada, it really is a version of OS X. Not seeding it to third party developers when they have clearly announced third party support to be included is just plain stupid. Software doesn't develop itself and it takes time. Given the time between the SDK announcement (October) and the keynote (Jan), I'd say that there's plenty of time for selected experienced OS X software vendors to release third party software come keynote day, including testing. You don't just release an SDK and hope for third party apps to magically appear from day one. And every day you don't get to sell these apps through iTunes or Apple Store is revenue lost for Apple.

I'm still fully convinced that they will announce third party applicaiton availability come jan 15th, and I wouldn't be shocked if the new firmware is released prior to this to deal with the (possible) onslaught of iPhone users wanting to try it out.

Complements on a very well structure and intelligent response. I am sure you are correct on all accounts. Also I am only an observer with no programming knowledge or skill so everything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

I do believe that third party applications for the iPhone are still a few months away. Apple have said they will release the SDK in Feb, but not mentioned when they will start offering applications. They have however stated that they will test these apps themselves, so I am assuming that March would be the earliest we'd see them. Having said that, the SDK might be released at Macworld.

There probably is a select few who have a (image pre) beta SDK, but these are more that likely long time developers associated with Apple and would not temp faith by leaking the amount of detail reported. Also the sites reporting this update don't have a great track record for Apple Rumors.

As for the Lawyers, I had never even considered the time of year and yes you are 100% right. It is opportunistic. I don't think however Apple would mind waking a few lawyers and judges if they were concerned.

Great post though, You are getting my thumbs up!

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Complements on a very well structure and intelligent response. I am sure you are correct on all accounts. Also I am only an observer with no programming knowledge or skill so everything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Thanks, I guess. I just try to write something other than the usual banter. Unfortunately there's a lot of people here that write very uninformed texts which really leads to nothing but twisted rumormongering. And then there are the people that bash the rumormongers, and then there are people that bash the bashers for bashing. In the middle of this are people saying that we should cut it out. I'm trying a different approach by simply posting what I myself would like to read, hopefully others will follow.

By the way, I am actually a pretty experienced software developer and it is my current profession so I do know quite a bit about the business I'm in. I'm not working close to hardware anymore though - I do front end development (read GUI) - but I have in the past albeit not the cellphone industry.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

I do believe that third party applications for the iPhone are still a few months away. Apple have said they will release the SDK in Feb, but not mentioned when they will start offering applications.

That's very true and what better time to announce it than Macworld, the event of the year?

Originally Posted by tiny_r

They have however stated that they will test these apps themselves, so I am assuming that March would be the earliest we'd see them. Having said that, the SDK might be released at Macworld.

Well, details are scarse, but they noted in some interview that they were thinking of screening apps in order to give them the royal seal of approval. This however does not mean that officially approved, iTunes sold applications are three months away. I do believe that the SDK might be released in february (although january would be awesome), but the new firmware along with applications won't. It's just too good an oppurtunity for Apple to push their SDK at Macworld to pass up.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

There probably is a select few who have a (image pre) beta SDK, but these are more that likely long time developers associated with Apple and would not temp faith by leaking the amount of detail reported. Also the sites reporting this update don't have a great track record for Apple Rumors.

GearLive might not have an awesome track record, but Nate True certainly has a very good one so I think this is a moot point. Also, you'd be surprised how shitty security is around a lot of things in the software world. The source to Half-Life 2 was released thanks to Gabe Newell's itchy porn clicking finger. A lot of the times its enough to have physical access to the building where the software is developed. Bigger vendors are of course usually more rigid, but if you've ever done any kind of software development on projects involving high-profile clients, you know what I'm talking about. NDA's notwithstanding, it's usually very easy to smuggle stuff out if you've got some kind of access. A friend of a developer might be the culprit, a disgruntled employee, a developer who's really keen on unlocking his daughters OTB iPhone ;o)

Point is it doesn't really matter who leaked it, what matters is that it's leaked and in the proper dev hands. Hopefully its useful to the unlocking effort.

Originally Posted by tiny_r

As for the Lawyers, I had never even considered the time of year and yes you are 100% right. It is opportunistic. I don't think however Apple would mind waking a few lawyers and judges if they were concerned.

I agree, they probably would wake them up and fly them in if they are unavailable. But still, a scrambled effort is not necessarily a good effort and it might not even be worth sending out cease & desist letters. After all, the firmware isn't publicly leaked, only screenshots and a vid. And those are pretty harmless actually. Such screenshots and vids have leaked before without any legal action taken on Apple's behalf (OS X leaks confirms this).

Originally Posted by tiny_r

Great post though, You are getting my thumbs up!

Hey, thanks =)

bro but there is a problem... GeoHot hasnt posted something about NCK bruteforce program or something.. So much people have access to a PS3, that is a great machine to do that job, but there is so less interesting about that. I think we have a lot of work to do, with or without GetHot help

We all want our Iphones unlocked forever with finding the NCK but we should let Geohot his Holidays , when he found smth new or has updates he will tell us.

Originally Posted by tramuyo

bro but there is a problem... GeoHot hasnt posted something about NCK bruteforce program or something.. So much people have access to a PS3, that is a great machine to do that job, but there is so less interesting about that. I think we have a lot of work to do, with or without GetHot help

I'd gladly use my PS3 to break the code if I knew how to!

Maybe Geohot and the dev team are full time working on the 1.1.3.
I am pretty sure that they already have access to it.... :-)

Sad news! Avoid 1.1.3 when it's released, at least for now!

http://cre.ations.net/blog/post/fun-news

Originally Posted by macke

Sad news! Avoid 1.1.3 when it's released, at least for now!

http://cre.ations.net/blog/post/fun-news

Ouch!!

Apple - 2

Hackers - 0

for now........