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Discuss 1.1.1 hysteria at the iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1) - Hackint0sh.org; Never posted on here before but I've been following the iPhone topics with interest, as ...
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    Default 1.1.1 hysteria

    Never posted on here before but I've been following the iPhone topics with interest, as well as on Engadget.

    Seems there's a lot of folk panicking that the moment Apple release the firmware update their iPhone is going to be useless. Forgive me if this has been mentioned on here before, but it seems to me that the worry is all for nothing. As long as you don't update, it'll be fine the way it is and anyway, Apple stand to lose out more than iPhone unlockers for these reasons.

    1) If you can't update to 1.1.1, then you won't be able to buy tunes on the go from iTunes.....Who does this hurt the most?

    2) If iPhones become impossible to unlock, Apple sell less of them. Apart from folk who don't want to pay the high tariffs, there's also those in countries like Canada, Scandinavian countries, Asia and Australia (to name but a few) who cannot legitimately buy one and either have to do without or take the hacking route. I believe the numbers of people who have hacked their phones is larger than Apple would like to publicly admit to. Again, Apple suffers the most if they cut off this way of having an iPhone.

    3) Whilst the likes of AT&T might be happy about stopping hacked phones from working, Starbucks will miss out on extra business and will effectively be providing a service solely for AT&T (or whoever the chosen carrier is in the country in question).

    4) Who wants a Starbucks icon on their phone anyway??

    I personally believe that Apple are just publicly being seen to do what they have to in order to keep exclusive carriers happy. Although they won't publicly admit to it, I'd be amazed if their programming team working on 1.1.1 haven't tried it on an unlocked phone, if for no other reason than to see what happens.

    Last point: I have never had a phone before where there have been firmware updates that added functionality. Therefore, my mindset is that The phone I buy and it's features are the ones I'm stuck with for better or worse. If that stays that way, fine: I'm more than happy with a PDA / iPod / Phone / Web browser not to mention all the cool little apps that keep appearing in the installer.app.

    Just my tuppence worth!



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    I personally believe that Apple are just publicly being seen to do what they have to in order to keep exclusive carriers happy. Although they won't publicly admit to it, I'd be amazed if their programming team working on 1.1.1 haven't tried it on an unlocked phone, if for no other reason than to see what happens.
    I personally agree with this.:p

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    Absolutely right. We have unlocked phones and we happy with it. I like Starbuck but I'm not gonna die without their logo on my iPhone.

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    Very well said. People here should think like you. It's not the end of the world you know LOL. It's only a phone. If other phone manufacturer comes up with the same technology that they put on the iPhone then let's see who's talking now

    Peolple worst comes to worst there are other phone available in the market LOL

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    Life isn't always THAT simple I'm afraid. Some people, especially those who don't have access to the iTunes US shop or those who may not even want to use the iTunes shop, may not care too much about future iTunes shop problems. Others, like me, do care.
    The only reason I bought the iPhone was...iTunes. I have a Nokia E90, a Nokia N95, a Samsung i600, a HTC TyTN and many other phones, so why would I need a phone which doesn't even have 3G or a A2DP bluetooth profile? Right...iTunes.

    So making a software unlock available for FW 1.1.1 is still a high priority as soon as the new firmware is out. I still have hopes that Apple was too occupied to implement the new iTunes WiFi shop and bugfixes and therefore FW 1.1.1 will still be "unlockable". I don't know however if future updates will be.
    Yes, I agree with some of your points, Apple sold tons of iPhones to people who don't want to get an AT&T subscription or who just can't because they're not from the US.
    On the other hand, I also know that Apple has a lot of pressure from AT&T and their new international partners to make the iPhone less vulnerable to unlock attempts.

    As far as I heard, Steve Jobs declared recently that Apple will take some action against "hackers" soon, he didn't say how and if these measures are technical or legal or maybe even both ways. Apple also warned that using the unlock software may brick your iPhone forever and their warranty doesn't cover such problems.

    Guys, enjoy your unlocked iPhones for now because I have a bad feeling that Apple is going to start to fight back sooner or later. It is understandable: part of Apple's iPhone marketing strategy is the exclusivity by a single carrier in certain countries. The availability of a software unlock is not very helpful, it could destroy their marketing strategy sooner or later. Apple NEEDS to act and they will, it is only a matter of time and if they will start with technical measures or may even worse, start "shooting" legal stuff at websites offering a software unlock and manuals how to do it.

    I hope I'm wrong but money rules the world and exclusive contracts don't mean much if Apple can't offer iPhones which can't be easily unlocked. A hardware unlock may not bother Apple too much, a software unlock which can be done by almost everybody is a different story I'm afraid. Maybe now people start to understand that Apple is no welfare company but a serious money making machine.
    They offer great products with an even better design but otherwise, there isn't much difference with other companies out there.
    Hacking the iPod or Apple TV is one thing, the iPhone is a completely different story because Apple is under pressure from their partners like AT&T, etc.. I highly doubt that T-Mobile in Germany or O2 in the UK will be different, the exclusivity of a locked iPhone is the ONLY reason people would switch to them when buying an iPhone. I still have my doubts that the iPhone will have the same success in Germany and in other parts of Europe like it had in the US but maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.

    One thing is for sure: on the longterm run, I think that Apple is going to loose a lot of customers and even more friends because the locked iPhone marketing strategy has already stirred up a lot of emotions and made some people very angry at Apple.
    I'm afraid Apple is only reading the sales figures, they don't read between the lines. How many sold iPhones have been actually activated by using a subscription with AT&T? Apple doesn't seem to care and this may cost them a lot of sympathy in the Mac World.
    Last edited by 997TT; 09-25-2007 at 11:53 PM.


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    997TT - remember that the GSM market is huge worldwide and more so than in the States. The law pertaining to UK SIM-locked phones only permits SIM-locks if the network 'carrier' (in US speak) subsidises the phone hardware. Since the iPhone hardware is not subsidised by the network company, under UK law any active action against those doing SIM-unlock hacks may fail a judicial review. I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that SIM locks are *only* allowed when there is financial interest from the network i.e. a subsidy, and if you pay off that subsidy then the phone *must* be unlocked *by the network* i.e. not Apple.... could get interesting. Theoretically in court one could argue that the iPhone is not subsidised by O2 (in the UK) and that O2 are obliged to provide the unlock code immediately...

    Furthermore, there are Euro countries that expressly forbid locked phones by law, and at least one of these (Italy) is a BIG market for high-fashion phones. The interest on here from people wanting to resell hacked phones to Rome and Milan is testament to this, along with the figures for sales of the 'latest' high-spec phones in Italy. Belgium IIRC has similar laws, but I'm not sure it's big enough a market for Apple to worry about.

    The bottom line is sales - if Apple require this aggressive anti-unlock strategy then there will be countries outside the USA that they simply cannot sell the phones in. That's known as cutting your nose off to spite your face (an English phrase if it isn't global-english) - the USA oddly isn't the largest GSM market, so they have to consider the legal ramifications of trying to play the 'fuck the customer' in multiple jurisdictions.

    It all could backfire on Apple in a big way. Giving the ROW the impression that Apple are going the way of the RIAA or the MPAA (by for example blocking all non-AT&T phones from using iTunes for sync) would kill all phones outside the USA - and these are Apple's advance-marketing guys FFS! Apple enthusiasts across the globe have acquired iPhones from eBay, hacked them and showed them off to their friends and colleagues. This is a big deal for Apple, and if they continue to let the media spin their attitude as 'let's destroy all the unlocked phones over the network' - which may not be true - then it will damage their reputation because early-adopters will advise against buying their products.

    Furthermore, such action may be illegal in many countries. The USA EULA certainly states that one is not allowed to modify the firmware, but if I'm in, say, Italy (which I'm not) and I hack the phone to work on a local network (because AT&T isn't an option, so I'm not circumventing a possible option) then how does Apple sue me? Or, more to the point, how do I sue Apple....

    Even more interesting, if Apple claim that the devices should not be allowed to be sold in markets that they're not permitted in.... then should Apple sue all the Americans that bought iPhones to sell on eBay to Apple-fanboy early adopters like me in foreign countries? That would be interesting, to say the least. All the buyers in the rest of the world could certainly identify the people they bought their phones off.... not to mention the people who actually travelled to the USA and were ***actively*** sold a phone by either Apple or AT&T.

    The main issue is that there is either media misinterpretation - that Apple are not responding to rapidly enough to reassure their evangelical customers.... or that Apple really are planning a *malicious* update. Either is bloody bad PR, whichever way you cut it. Neither is a good thing, for any reason. Maybe AT&T shareholders will be happy, but if Apple lose their customer-friendly reputation completely due to a deal with a 'fuck the customer' company, then Jobs really has made a bad move compared to his exemplary stewardship of Apple up till now.

    We will see. The FUD that 'modified firmware' is unknown and could cause OS problems / network issues - utter bullshit. The unlock crack merely writes a couple of bytes to make sure the SIM-check function returns true in all cases. Unless I'm mistaken, the Dev Team haven't rewritten the entire firmware or made extensive modifications to firmware code. George Hotz didn't - and AFAIK the software unlock merely uses a buffer overflow bug to allow Hotz's couple-of-bytes patch to achieve the same ends. This is hardly going to fuck up the firmware or the network, or the OS X software on top.

    Perhaps Apple were customer-friendly when they knew their company could die - now they're doing well, they're getting arrogant? The iPhone is great - I love it - but it wouldn't take much for a clone-maker to use the same touchscreen, a Linux kernel and userland, and some copied eye candy. It wouldn't be as *good* as the iPhone but it could get close. So Apple have no reason to think they are the only ones doing this. I have a similar-sized PDA from 5 years ago running Linux as well as the iPhone runs OS X. The main difference is circuit board size, battery life, Cocoa apps and the touchscreen (which I'm sure other companies other than Apple can buy).

    The 'hysteria' could be easily stemmed by Apple putting out a simple press release saying that they don't intend to actively destroy peoples' property with the next upgrade, and that hackers should avoid upgrading until they know what's going on. It would be common-sense (we all know not to do it anyway) - and would reassure people outside the US that they could continue to use their phones until an official version was sold in their home country and they could buy the latest version. Why is this a problem for Apple????


    BTW - is your screen name referring to the porker of the same internal code number? I am a fan, had a supercharged 993 and aspire to a 993 GT2, though that may never happen...

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    Wow, its amazing how Apple's biggest fans, the guys who really were the early adopters of the iPhone are just the ones that Apple is "targeting". I think Steve has lost it. Apple came out of the trash because of the iPod and could easily go back into the garbage based on what they do with the iPhone. But then again, i dont think Apple really cares. You know its really bad when the folks at MSFT look like the good guys!

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    I completely agree with all of the above posts. For a company whos stocks have rose 2% in the last 2 weeks (hmm....a little coincidental dont ya think? During the time of everybody buying iphones to unlock their stock rises) they sure aren't acting very appreciative. When I bought my iphone last saturday from the apple store I literally saw about 25 phones sold just in the 15 minutes I was there. A dude was there in a suit and bought 10 8GB. They were hesitant to sell him that many because supposable there is a limit but they gave it to him anyway.

    I bet 70% of the phones sold that day were unlocked that weekend for use with T-mobile. I even heard one employee ask, "just to clarify, unlocking these phones are not encouraged". Way to do your job buddy.

    If the new firmware does brick our phones then they will have a HUGE class lawsuit on their hands by thousands. They "officially" stated (apple) that unlocked iphones void warrantee yesterday. Now, all of us that unlocked our iphones previous are exempt from this because it wasn't officially stated. I haven't checked the fine little print in the apple book so maybe they mention it but from what I understand its not very specific.

    Finally, its not like we HAVE to download the firmware. I set my options in iTunes to NEVER look for updates. If I want to look for an update I have to click the button. Nobody from Apple can make me update my iphone nor look for one.

    Thats my 2 cents. :-)

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    Good points about not needing 1.1.1 and later firmware, and that we can live without the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store and Starbucks.

    However, what about:

    • bug fixes (eg, I'd like fewer Safari crashes while listening to the iPod)
    • crashes (even though it's very good, the iPhone software still has a lot of "1.0" type issues)
    • coverflow glitches (eg, on the iPod touch, I don't think podcast cover "art" is lumped in)
    • international keyboards
    • extra network settings (eg, disable EDGE while roaming, GSM options)
    • video output
    • interface tweaks (eg, the home button double-press)


    But what I'm actually most worried about for 1.1.1 is this:

    If Apple prevents jailbreaking and installing the AppTapp / Installer.app, as many knowledgeable hackers fear they will (ie, lock it down like the iPod touch), then the 3rd party apps effectively stop development. After all, what's the point if most iPhone users can't run them?

    Now, iPhone app writers may decide to "fork" and stay on 1.0.2, but many are actually legitimate AT&T customers and will probably update themselves, and thus lose interest in developing for iPhone. Even if they don't update, most average users will because the Apple updates mean more than 3rd party apps, so what's the point of writing apps few people will use. The scene could effectively dry up.

    So there are actually a few reasons to get concerned about what 1.1.1 will bring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomff View Post
    ast point: I have never had a phone before where there have been firmware updates that added functionality. Therefore, my mindset is that The phone I buy and it's features are the ones I'm stuck with for better or worse. If that stays that way, fine: I'm more than happy with a PDA / iPod / Phone / Web browser not to mention all the cool little apps that keep appearing in the installer.app.
    )
    Absolutely excellent point, we have all had our mindsets changes irrationally with this phone.


 

 
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