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Discuss 1.1.1 hysteria at the iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1) - Hackint0sh.org; I think that Apple has said what they did as a precaution in case something ...
  1. #11
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    I think that Apple has said what they did as a precaution in case something does go wrong - there are so many apps out there that is it impossible for them to check everything - also interesting to note that it has not (yet) been released as an official statement on http://www.apple.com/pr/ - so I still have hope ;-)


  2. #12
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    What I actually didn't like about what Steve Jobs said recently is that when asked why no third party application support is offered by Apple for the iPhone, he gave Windows as an example on how easily Viruses, etc. can be spread outside a "controlled" environment. This doesn't make any sense because there are tons of third party applications for OSX (Power PC, Intel), so I really wonder why SJ said that? Just the usual Windows bashing thingie or maybe he didn't expect the questions about third party application support and just threw "something" at journalists? I don't know but as much as I love the iPhone, I can't hide the feeling that Apple is going to hit hard on iPhone hacking/native application mods sooner or later. This would really be a shame because especially a company like Apple lives through the support and hype created by a independent user/development community.

    I went to a local T-Mobile shop over here in Germany and talked to the staff about the iPhone. All of them were very excited and even more when I showed them my WORKING iPhone. They weren't too pleased about the Vodafone carrier logo and they were very surprised that the iPhone has already been "hacked".

    T-Mobile actually did a very clever thing and couldn't care less about software unlocked phones if what the shop manager told me is true: apparently the iPhone in Germany will ONLY be available through T-Mobile shops, incl. a contract. Even the german Apple shop isn't supposed to sell the iPhone. So this is a completely different approach compared to the US, meaning that without making a contract, you can't get an iPhone in Germany, not even a locked one.
    Furthermore, T-Mobile apparently wants to offer, like they do on other locked phones too, an unlock for a one time fee of 99 Euro. Of course you need to make a contract with them first to get an iPhone.
    These are actually GOOD news for the iPhone modding community because it takes away some pressure from Apple to fight independent iPhone mods and unlocks. I don't know however if the same marketing/sales strategy will be used in other european countries.

    Still: I believe Apple would have had more success if they would have taken a different iPhone marketing approach in Europe, especially since people over here aren't using the iTunes shop that much compared to US customers. The lack of availability of TV shows and movies in European iTunes shops (with the exception of the UK) may be one major reason for that, the pretty steep prices compared to the US shop maybe too but this is more a matter of the current exchange rate.

    Sticking with FW 1.0.2 forever is very short-sighted. Despite the fact that sooner or later, iTunes shop purchases may not work with too old FW versions, there are tons of bugfixes and even more important: security fixes. Don't forget that as soon as your iPhone connects to the internet (EDGE, GPRS), it is "vulnerable".
    There is also the very common problem that many people modded and unlocked their iPhones but a lot of them didn't change the default password "dottie" and left SSH enabled too. Even worse: the more native applications are available, the more people tend to download and install them without even knowing if they're safe to use. A paradise for "bad people".

    FW updates are necessary, like it or not. Not being able to perform them because it would lock the iPhone back to AT&T would be a real shame but I'm afraid this is exactly what is going to happen. I still hope that Apple is more concerned about fixing bugs/security flaws and adding new features than fixing all possible loopholes for a future software unlock. Unfortunately the claims made by Apple employees and Steve Jobs over the past 10 days or so indicate something different. Time will tell.

  3. #13
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    without making a contract, you can't get an iPhone in Germany

    How about "I want to make it a gift, it won't be me who is going to have a contract"? Are they going to exclude that too?

  4. #14
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    997TT - Any claims that third party software development can damage the quality of the rest of the iPhone experience are shaky at best, and claims that non-Apple software puts the network at risk are BS.

    Those of us (including myself) who have been using Palm Treos for literally **years** (I started with pretty much the first 600 to come into the UK, blagged someone's spot on the waiting list in the Holborn Orange shop in London) have been installing the entire ecosystem (which is very large indeed) of 3rd party Palm apps - from the crash-prone low quality apps to the best commercial apps. All whilst using the Treo as a GSM phone (the Treo is also available as a CDMA device in the USA).

    Yes, some 3rd party Palm apps are shite and crash the entire device a lot, which is a pain. Yes, some suck battery life. None break the *existing* software though, and none compromise the network.

    Obviously OS X is a different paradigm and a proper multitasking OS, so a malicious background daemon could send your messages to someone on the internet, for example, but this is no different to any other smartphone running Windows or Palm OS (that anyone can develop 3rd party stuff for). These are all userland applications - not programs (save for the unlock app) that mess about with the baseband firmware. Yes, theoretically, someone with extensive inside knowledge could write an app that modifies the baseband code to do different and potentially nasty stuff on the GSM network, but again this is no different to other phones with flashable baseband firmware, and a very very difficult job to do.

    I'm toning back my enthusiasm for Apple over this. If Apple take the nuclear option, which for me would be to stop 1.0.2 phones from being able to sync contacts / calendar / tunes via iTunes, then I will be furious and will immediately halt any recommendations. Seems like over-reaction, but my worry above, if implemented, is incredible bad faith from Apple. They don't do this shit with the Apple TV and loads of people have hacked those units.

    Right now, my hacked and cracked phone is quite obviously not communicating with my Mac properly, there are SSL errors all over the place in the system logs, but iTunes will *still sync* my data. I expect at the very least this to still continue.

    Look at it this way. Plenty of people buy iPods but have no idea of what a firmware update is and don't apply them. I've had people bring me their iPod that a friend gave them that was initially used with Windows, has a monster library of tunes on it, and hasn't been synced with iTunes since... still running original firmware. In all of these cases, the iPod will still sync with iTunes even if Apple have released a new firmware update for the iPod. Apple would have to *deliberately* change iTunes to no longer work with old firmware iPhones - and I can't interpret this as being anything other than malicious 'fuck the customer' attitude. And I despise this.

  5. #15
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    Hi 997TT and others,

    i'm from germany too and i unlocked two phones for my friends already. my one is coming on friday. i also was very excited to buy one in germany and then i had to see that they won't sell it here in the apple online store. so i ordered one in usa. i could get one from the apple online store uk, bit this will of course not unlockable from 9. november on, maybe later.

    but what i'm really interested in, is the question, if you could get out of the t-mobile contract within the first two weeks and do you have to return your phone then, because it is not subsidized? or do they want also the phone back, which you have bought für 399,- euros?

    i'm sure the iphone will be a huge flop here in germany because almost nobody will pay the big bill every month from t-mobile. but time will tell.

    my 0.02 euro


  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomff View Post
    Last point: I have never had a phone before where there have been firmware updates that added functionality.
    Good point, but have you had a smartphone before?

    My WM5 based phone had two updates. They didn't really bring much functionality, but did help stability.

    It'd, nice if Apple didn't lock a lot of folk out. There are bug fixes needed for the iPhone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotmike View Post
    Good point, but have you had a smartphone before?

    My WM5 based phone had two updates. They didn't really bring much functionality, but did help stability.

    It'd, nice if Apple didn't lock a lot of folk out. There are bug fixes needed for the iPhone.

    Yes, I've had a couple of Windows based smartphones before, but never had an update that added any value. The same phones had email and internet (after a fashion) on them but I never used the email facility because typing was too much of a pain and I only ever used internet for basic stuff like checking football results. Beyond that simple usage, I just used them as phones.

    In Fairness this was a few years ago and the iPhone is the first so called smart phone I've had since then. But then again I am a bit of a self confessed fan of Apple stuff, and I'm turned off by the Blackberry style phones with all of those buttons - So the iPhone appealed to me.

    As for the bugs that people have mentioned, I've had the occasional crash where I've had to start the phone again but it's quite rare and certainly not a show stopper.

    I think the whole iPhone firmware issue has distinct parallels to the PSP scene. I own a hacked PSP and still buy games for it.....But I also have an 8GB memory card that I put those games onto so that when I'm travelling about, I don't have to lug a whole heap of UMD's with me. Apart from being more convenient, I also find it kind of fun keeping up with whats going on in the PSP hacking scene. Everytime a new firmware comes out, there's a delay of about a week to a month where one hacking group or another creates a patch to amend the firmware update so that it stays hacked. I imagine a similar thing will happen with iPhone updates as well.

    But if it doesn't, like I say I'm quite happy with what I have already. It's Apple who will lose out if I can't buy tunes on the go, Just as they will if iPhones can't be unlocked anymore.

    Speaking of which....It must be quite easy for Apple to work out how many unlocked phones they have sold. Presumably its just the simple equation of number of iPhones sold - Number of AT&T contracts (which they should know if they get a share of the tariffs). When Apple announced that they had sold a million I wondered how many of those were not signed up to AT&T. I guess we'll never know!

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    Has anyone yet bought or seen an iPhone w/ fw 1.1.1 except the one they showed in the UK presentation?

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    Steve Jobs has one...

 

 
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