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Discuss iPhone not optimized for t-Mobile US at the iOS 4.x (iPhone OS 4.x) - Hackint0sh.org; Thanks for the input guys (especially nickn4m3) but I figured out a serious fact the ...
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    Default iPhone not optimized for t-Mobile US

    Thanks for the input guys (especially nickn4m3) but I figured out a serious fact the past week. It seems that Apple is the reason that iPhones ONLY WORK on ATT in the USA. The way they program the phone with their "software lock" will not allow the phone to pick up the different 3G bands that other GSM carriers (like T-Mobile USA) offers. What's funny about this? You pay $650/$750 (16GB/32GB) for an UNLOCKED iPhone 4 (GSM) and you can only use it on ATT in the USA. How does this equate to it being unlocked?

    I called Apple and talked to an engineer. He was very secretive and defensive of my accusations that the unlocked GSM iPhone 4s are a SCAM in the USA because they aren't programmed to work with T-Mobile USA. He finally caved in and indirectly admitted that Apple made sure the phone would have "limited" functionality with other GSM carriers in the USA. So for all the noobs out there (and maybe a few pros) DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE THAT THE ANTENNA ON AN IPHONE 4 ONLY PICKS UP CERTAIN 3G BANDS. It's all about the programming and software lock. Antennas pick up signals regardless, it's the software code that dictates how to use them. I would like input from nickn4m3 and Olethros about this issie.



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    Super Moderator Array Olethros's Avatar

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    First and foremost, your post is OFF-TOPIC and you are threadjacking. This is rude and unnecessary. What does your post have to do with MMS?

    Secondly don't blame Apple. Instead blame the telcos and the government's poor regulation and lack of foresight when allocating frequency space.
    nearly other country in the world has managed to find spectrum in a standardised location and allocate it to multiple carriers to allow competition, however this hasn't happened in the US.

    There simply aren't enough carriers outside of the USA who use the same frequency as t-mobile for GSM phones to make it worthwhile for Apple to prioritise supporting this frequency band (yet). I'd prefer not to believe your poorly justified statement re antennas.

    As someone who has been trained in this area, I can say your statement is misleading. Antennas need to be optimised (in other words tuned) to properly pick up specific frequency bands. Other frequency bands might also be picked up by the antenna, but the signal will be much weaker and unreliable. The software cannot improve much on a weak signal. Amplification and noise reduction can only improve things a little.
    Additionaly, power amplifiers are designed to operate on specific frequency bands, so even if the "software support was there", you need hardware support in the form of a properly tuned antenna and a power amp that supports this band. The power amplifier takes valuable space on the tiny motherboard - so it makes sense to not add an extra one for a little used frequency band. I think Apple chose to support an extra Japanese frequency band in the iPhone 4 over the t-mobile band. (It's been a while and I haven't got the time to go back and validate this claim right now, it might be wrong - but it's what I recall from the last time I dug into this issue)

    So.. yes the antenna DOES need to be tweaked to give equivalent signal reception for the USA t-mobile 3G band.
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    @Olethros

    With all due respect, and I truly mean respect as you have helped me out a few times in the past. BUT, I don't understand the accusation of "threadjacking" and being "rude and unecessary" when THIS IS A THREAD I STARTED. How can you imply that I'm defaming Apple??? I'm sharing a valuable piece of info that I have come across recently.

    It's seems you agree that the ACTUAL ANTENNA isn't the reason why the iPhone 4 can't pick up the 3G bands of T-Mobile USA. Instead, it's the "power optimizers" that are missing. According to the FCC, the iPhone 4 has WCDMA 850/900/1900/2100. ATT uses WCDMA 850/1900/2100 where T-Mobile USA requires WCDMA 1700/2100. So, it's brutally obvious that the 1700 band is the "missing link". How much money or how much space would it be necessary to have a power optimizer for the 1700 band and how hard would it be to include it into the software? I'm guessing not too much since Chinese kids working for $2 per day are assembling these phones.

    I understand that ATT would want to ensure (before the recent merger) that nobody from ATT will migrate to T-Mobile USA with the iPhone 4. After all, it's all about the money in the end...PERIOD.

    It's easy to point the finger to ATT and blame them for the iPhone 4 being completely locked to their network because of contractual agreements. BUT, how can Apple sell an iPhone 4 GSM (factory unlocked) for $649/$749 (16GB/32GB) and still claim it to be "unlocked"??? At this point, logic proves that Apple is at fault and there was a lawsuit against Apple that exposed this SCAM. And guess what, Apple LOST THE LAWSUIT UNAMINOUSLY. I'm not that smart and definitely not the first person to notice this assymetry.

    Please comment.
    Last edited by fazzarelli; 09-13-2011 at 07:38 AM.

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    Super Moderator Array Olethros's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fazzarelli View Post
    @Olethros

    With all due respect, and I truly mean respect as you have helped me out a few times in the past. BUT, I don't understand the accusation of "threadjacking" and being "rude and unecessary" when THIS IS A THREAD I STARTED. How can you imply that I'm defaming Apple??? I'm sharing a valuable piece of info that I have come across recently.
    I've now moved this to it's own thread.

    Respectfully, anyone can take a thread off topic, even the initiator of the thread. I may have come across a bit brash, but there is no real connection between making MMS work on t-mobile and arguing over who is at fault for why the iPhone doesn't yet work on the 3G frequencies used by T-Mobile US.


    Quote Originally Posted by fazzarelli View Post
    It's seems you agree that the ACTUAL ANTENNA isn't the reason why the iPhone 4 can't pick up the 3G bands of T-Mobile USA.
    No I didn't say that, I said it is both the antenna design (which impacts the tuning) and the power amplifiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by fazzarelli View Post
    Instead, it's the "power optimizers" that are missing. According to the FCC, the iPhone 4 has WCDMA 850/900/1900/2100. ATT uses WCDMA 850/1900/2100 where T-Mobile USA requires WCDMA 1700/2100. So, it's brutally obvious that the 1700 band is the "missing link". How much money or how much space would it be necessary to have a power optimizer for the 1700 band and how hard would it be to include it into the software? I'm guessing not too much since Chinese kids working for $2 per day are assembling these phones.
    The real question is: can Apple get a single chip power amplifier unit that can cover the 6 frequency bands needed to offer a truly world GSM phone (800 850 900 1700 1900 2100 MHz)? There are other components that also need to support these extra frequencies, but my understanding is that they are already present in the Verizon version of the iPhone4 (but not in the GSM iPhone 4)

    Quote Originally Posted by fazzarelli View Post
    After all, it's all about the money in the end...PERIOD.
    Aside from the technical side of things, the real question is: is it worth it for Apple to bother to support 1700Mhz when ONLY these carriers are using it: USA (T-Mobile, Cincinnati Bell Wireless), Canada (WIND Mobile, Mobilicity, Videotron), Chile (VTR, Nextel)?

    Yes it is all about money, but it doesn't mean that AT&T is still conspiring to keep T-Mobile out of the iPhone - their exclusive contract is history, Apple wants to expand the iPhone customer base and if it makes technical and economical sense - they WILL add the required support for 1700MHz.

    Quote Originally Posted by fazzarelli View Post
    BUT, how can Apple sell an iPhone 4 GSM (factory unlocked) for $649/$749 (16GB/32GB) and still claim it to be "unlocked"??? At this point, logic proves that Apple is at fault and there was a lawsuit against Apple that exposed this SCAM. And guess what, Apple LOST THE LAWSUIT UNAMINOUSLY. I'm not that smart and definitely not the first person to notice this assymetry.
    Because there is a world outside of the USA and regular travellers are sick of being scalped by AT&T's outrageous roaming charges. T-Mobile USA is a small fish in the overall GSM ocean
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