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Discuss Get your device (UUID) registered for 3.0 activation at the iOS 3.x (iPhone OS 3.x) - Hackint0sh.org; Originally Posted by inshadesofgrey Opinion: Giving access to Beta 4 to the community - illegal? ...
  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by inshadesofgrey View Post
    Opinion:
    Giving access to Beta 4 to the community - illegal?

    FACT:

    Jailbreaking - illegal (Apple Says iPhone Jailbreaking is Illegal | Electronic Frontier Foundation)

    Unlocking - illegal

    and yes, $100 is a huge amount for an independent developer fresh out of college in the middle of a full blown recession and no jobs - the tuition of IT classes gotta be paid.

    if all this doesn't settle with you - there are a lot of posts which tell you how to bypass beta 4 activation, for instance,
    http://www.hackint0sh.org/forum/f201/72220.htm

    So that's okay ??? just because you get it for free??

    where do you draw the line.
    you are doing some mental acrobatics to justify something that is not just in OPINION illegal, it is outright illegal (and against forum rules), have you read your developer agreement???? and dont try to mask what you are doing and pad your conscience because you think you are "helping the community"

    im a devloper myself, i have a dev account and im still IN college and its a depression not a recession the idiots in "charge" are just afraid to call it that, especially because the people they tasked to "fix" it are the same knuckleheads who caused it on purpose in the first place, but that is another conversation for another day.

    Apple may claim jailbreaking is illegal but that is a cloudy discussion there is no proof aside from apple saying its illegal that its actually illegal. there are rules on the forum as well about giving out links for the fw, every other thread has been closed and they have had harsh words for people selling dev spots. i still have SEVERAL spots and i refuse to sell them even if im hard up for cash because its bottom feeding and pathetic, im sorry it is. period. why not try to actually write an app and sell one? isnt that the whole point of being a developer in the first place? or did you just buy a dev account so you can sell "donation based" spots (hint its not a donation if you REQUIRE it) to make a profit then you arent a developer and have no place calling yourself one. if you had a hard time pulling 100$ together and you did it more in the interest of ripping people off for 5$ a slot or something then you should have never bought the account in the first place. or try getting a second job, i have 2 jobs and go to school a lot of people do.

    if apple gets fed up and starts giving developers less uuid spots because of people like you selling spots where are real devs going to point the finger of blame? do you want to be partially responsible for any response from apple like that? i wouldnt want to be. And trying to compare jailbreaking and unlocking's questionable legality to SELLING firmware and dev spots, there is just no comparison, comparing apple's and oranges isnt even going far enough to distinguish how different those two situations are.
    Last edited by nitosoft; 05-06-2009 at 09:26 PM.


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    I am still need a slot to test Arabic before final version. so please if anyone having free slot that would be great and thankful.
    • iPhone 3G: 16GB White OS3.
    • Model: MB500AB
    • Ultrasn0w working 100%
    • Carrier: etisalat (Egypt)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitosoft View Post
    you are doing some mental acrobatics to justify something that is not just in OPINION illegal, it is outright illegal (and against forum rules), have you read your developer agreement???? and dont try to mask what you are doing and pad your conscience because you think you are "helping the community"

    im a devloper myself, i have a dev account and im still IN college and its a depression not a recession the idiots in "charge" are just afraid to call it that, especially because the people they tasked to "fix" it are the same knuckleheads who caused it on purpose in the first place, but that is another conversation for another day.

    Apple may claim jailbreaking is illegal but that is a cloudy discussion there is no proof aside from apple saying its illegal that its actually illegal. there are rules on the forum as well about giving out links for the fw, every other thread has been closed and they have had harsh words for people selling dev spots. i still have SEVERAL spots and i refuse to sell them even if im hard up for cash because its bottom feeding and pathetic, im sorry it is. period. why not try to actually write an app and sell one? isnt that the whole point of being a developer in the first place? or did you just buy a dev account so you can sell "donation based" spots (hint its not a donation if you REQUIRE it) to make a profit then you arent a developer and have no place calling yourself one. if you had a hard time pulling 100$ together and you did it more in the interest of ripping people off for 5$ a slot or something then you should have never bought the account in the first place. or try getting a second job, i have 2 jobs and go to school a lot of people do.

    if apple gets fed up and starts giving developers less uuid spots because of people like you selling spots where are real devs going to point the finger of blame? do you want to be partially responsible for any response from apple like that? i wouldnt want to be. And trying to compare jailbreaking and unlocking's questionable legality to SELLING firmware and dev spots, there is just no comparison, comparing apple's and oranges isnt even going far enough to distinguish how different those two situations are.
    -------
    Nitosoft -

    "Its a depression not a recession ..... but that is another conversation for another day. "
    - No matter what you call it - it means less jobs. The idea of this post wasn't to test your economics knowledge. but that's another conversation...

    So - lemme get it straight. Most forums in the community have posted a way on how to bypass the activation process - So, that is OK?? Just because it's free and you don't have to pay for it - that makes it okay?

    By the way, Apple doesn't care if people are testing 3.0 before than they should be - (why do you think an individual account has power to authorize a 100 people not even the company one??) - What they care about is selling their developer program and the maximum amount of feedback they can get.

    And as far as $100 breaking my back - there are tons of forum members who would think that's a steep number. It may not be a big number for you - it is for some of us.

    I am just of the opinion that If I have a 100 slots to give out - I WILL give OUT some free SLOTS(so people can share this too) see any popular forum and you'll find my name......
    ----

    PEOPLE are going to try the betas eitherways.....apple knows that.......THEREFORE, ITS BETTER THAT THEY GET TO TRY THE BETAS BY BEING ON THE DEV LIST - rather than by bypassing activation process and playing with your baseband......
    ---
    So - I hope you go after the people who are posting ways to bypass the activation process - because that's a breach of contract as well.

    So, if you have open slots left - and you're not giving them out - it's a shame. Share it with the community. But if you take EVERYTHING apple has in the contract seriously - you'd have one boring phone.

    and by the way, I don't think I am helping the community at all - but atleast I am giving people a safer way to try the betas.

    THE BOTTOM LINE is that IF people wanna try out the Betas before the rest of the world - they should be able to. Not like you, who'll hold 'em back - i seriously doubt that you have any though.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by inshadesofgrey View Post
    -------
    Nitosoft -

    "Its a depression not a recession ..... but that is another conversation for another day. "
    - No matter what you call it - it means less jobs. The idea of this post wasn't to test your economics knowledge. but that's another conversation...

    So - lemme get it straight. Most forums in the community have posted a way on how to bypass the activation process - So, that is OK?? Just because it's free and you don't have to pay for it - that makes it okay?

    By the way, Apple doesn't care if people are testing 3.0 before than they should be - (why do you think an individual account has power to authorize a 100 people not even the company one??) - What they care about is selling their developer program and the maximum amount of feedback they can get.

    And as far as $100 breaking my back - there are tons of forum members who would think that's a steep number. It may not be a big number for you - it is for some of us.

    I am just of the opinion that If I have a 100 slots to give out - I WILL give OUT some free SLOTS(so people can share this too) see any popular forum and you'll find my name......
    ----

    PEOPLE are going to try the betas eitherways.....apple knows that.......THEREFORE, ITS BETTER THAT THEY GET TO TRY THE BETAS BY BEING ON THE DEV LIST - rather than by bypassing activation process and playing with your baseband......
    ---
    So - I hope you go after the people who are posting ways to bypass the activation process - because that's a breach of contract as well.

    So, if you have open slots left - and you're not giving them out - it's a shame. Share it with the community. But if you take EVERYTHING apple has in the contract seriously - you'd have one boring phone.

    and by the way, I don't think I am helping the community at all - but atleast I am giving people a safer way to try the betas.

    THE BOTTOM LINE is that IF people wanna try out the Betas before the rest of the world - they should be able to. Not like you, who'll hold 'em back - i seriously doubt that you have any though.....
    a big reason people wanted to find bypasses in activation was because of developers selling spots! granted people are going to breach the contract, and the only reason i brought that up is because you said it was an OPINION its legal to SELL firmware and spots to people and i wanted to point out that it was a breach of a contract you agreed to, so therefore illegal. My problem is more with selling something (firmware links, spots) than it is with anything else. I dont think people shouldn't be able to try betas before they are out, that is their perogative, but i wont help people acquire the betas ESPECIALLY by selling them when its against the law, against apples rules (i wouldnt be surprised if they deactivate accounts where they catch developers doing this) AND against the forum rules. im not a cop im not out to hound people for breaching contracts- that statement (about contract breach), to reiterate, was to dispell your opinion/fact comparison. Yes i do have SEVERAL dev spots free, why would i lie about that? what do i have to gain? i want to give those spots to people that will help me debug my software, not sell it to people on hackint0sh. My problem isnt with helping people activate their phones my sole problem is selling the spots and / or links to the firmware. And yes 100$ is a lot of money to me at the moment im not any more comfortable than most people, the difference is i WONT Spend 100$ on the iPhone developer program if i have to sell spots to recoup my "loss" that is the whole problem, looking at the 100$ as a loss, if you are doing this JUST to get betas than you have no place doing it, the 100$ is nothing if you actually WRITE AN APP AND SELL IT.

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    inshadesofgrey just added my UUID for free, Im updating now THANK YOU VERY MUCH inshadesofgrey

    i dont even know you and you dont know me, and just came and added me when i pmd you, THANKS !


    EDIT: I just installed 3.0 and im using it im making calls, etc all fine, my Phone is legally Unlocked so its easy for me Thank you Very much insha, 3.0 is awesome, Yall gotta try it guys.
    Last edited by emjunkie; 05-07-2009 at 04:51 AM.


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    Default no probs....

    Quote Originally Posted by emjunkie View Post
    inshadesofgrey just added my UUID for free, Im updating now THANK YOU VERY MUCH inshadesofgrey

    i dont even know you and you dont know me, and just came and added me when i pmd you, THANKS !

    You're very welcome

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    Default perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by nitosoft View Post
    a big reason people wanted to find bypasses in activation was because of developers selling spots! granted people are going to breach the contract, and the only reason i brought that up is because you said it was an OPINION its legal to SELL firmware and spots to people and i wanted to point out that it was a breach of a contract you agreed to, so therefore illegal. My problem is more with selling something (firmware links, spots) than it is with anything else. I dont think people shouldn't be able to try betas before they are out, that is their perogative, but i wont help people acquire the betas ESPECIALLY by selling them when its against the law, against apples rules (i wouldnt be surprised if they deactivate accounts where they catch developers doing this) AND against the forum rules. im not a cop im not out to hound people for breaching contracts- that statement (about contract breach), to reiterate, was to dispell your opinion/fact comparison. Yes i do have SEVERAL dev spots free, why would i lie about that? what do i have to gain? i want to give those spots to people that will help me debug my software, not sell it to people on hackint0sh. My problem isnt with helping people activate their phones my sole problem is selling the spots and / or links to the firmware. And yes 100$ is a lot of money to me at the moment im not any more comfortable than most people, the difference is i WONT Spend 100$ on the iPhone developer program if i have to sell spots to recoup my "loss" that is the whole problem, looking at the 100$ as a loss, if you are doing this JUST to get betas than you have no place doing it, the 100$ is nothing if you actually WRITE AN APP AND SELL IT.
    ------
    "a big reason people wanted to find bypasses in activation was because of developers selling spots! "
    I don't know where your facts are coming from but as soon as OS 3.0 was announced and the day the first beta was pushed out to developers - people were always gonna go and find a way to try it and bypass activation. Selling slots or no selling slots, the iphone enthusiasts would wanna get their hands on the beta nevertheless.

    "selling links, betas etc"
    The links are everywhere on the internet........I dont know why anyone would pay for that. Slots? Well, most people who are die-hard iphone fans don't wanna wait till the final version comes out......so, what are their options? Either go online and buy a slot off some random site or come to the forums and see if people are willing to add them for free or for a fee. 99% of the people I have spoken to aren't really shocked that these slots are charged for.

    "Selling slots is illegal" - Can you give me a link which says that. Read the Apple developers agreement. I did and the answer is YES, it is illegal to distribute the betas (so me sending DVDs of betas or uploading the beta firmware and selling it. Selling slots, NO, it's an infringement of Apple's contract (just like bypassing activation). you are given a choice to enroll 100 people - and they could be anyone you deem fit.

    AGAIN, Apple are not lawmakers - they don't decide whats legal and illegal.

    You mention that you don't have a problem with people trying the betas but you don't want the betas slots sold or firmware links given. So the only way for the general public to try the beta would be
    A) Bypassing activation
    B) Pay the full $99
    C) wait for general souls to come by and hand out slots
    D) Make friends with someone who is enrolled in the program. (gives a whole new meaning to the phrase - 'friends with benefits' - lol)
    Well, if this were to happen, Apple would be getting 1/10th the feedback on bugs and possible issues and 1/3rd the money by selling the program.

    The fact that the slots are being sold assures the people that they won't end up with a bricked phone (as they could with some unstable activation bypasses. So, even if they get ripped off by someone, who takes their money and doesn't add them (or deletes them later) - they can atleast contact 20,0000 other developers who can add them again. Can you imagine if the option wasn't there? That means you'll have an expensive paperweight till the time Quickpwn or someone else breaks the activation again.

    It's not for you and I to decide whats right or wrong - it's the whole iphone community and they have a RIGHT to have a choice.
    A choice to pay $6 or pay $100 or try to bypass activation.

    and honestly, I don't really know why I am getting financial advice from you (get a second job, don't buy the developer program if you can't afford it etc etc). I spent a $100 because this is what I am passionate about. So whatever extra money I make goes back to my tuition - or for attending IT events - I am making an investment in myself, through education.

    And please, it is very easy to question someone's credentials (that am not a developer) and his/her intentions. The fact is, between five forums, I have more than 80 people who appreciate that I offered them a spot. Some people who couldn't pay are helping me with my webpage and other things.

    Keep an open mind - more often than not, things are NOT in black or white (the way you make them out to be).

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JSN1 View Post
    Hi everyone!

    ----
    slots still available
    People won't be erased from the list

    ----

    There has been so much hype around 3.0 that I would really like to add everyone to my account, but sometimes this becomes hard!

    This is what I'm going to do.

    Create a donations pool to create a new account!!! *the account is online
    This account is going to be used for you to register your devices, once you are in, we won't remove you.
    Donations are up to you. Just take in mind PayPal takes 3.9%+.3USD.

    So your saying if we donate (which i would gladly do) our UUID/UDID would be added?... - Or are you saying that that you don't mind about donations (i would still donate) - and that our UUID will be added anyway?.. which would be so generous to any community :O

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    ishadesofgrey, you are the best! you have literally saved my phone
    and as for this guy thats been saying its illegal to give out developer spots, its your money that you spent on it, so its your decision what you do with the spots, and if you want to sell them for a small price thats up to you,
    Apple cannot stop you because they sold 100 spots to one person who is going to end up selling or giving away spots to other people, its how the internet works, distribution! some people help others, some people flame other, we have to get used to it
    but you are one of the good people
    thanks again for helping me out

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    Default done.

    Quote Originally Posted by anarchyy View Post
    ishadesofgrey, you are the best! you have literally saved my phone
    and as for this guy thats been saying its illegal to give out developer spots, its your money that you spent on it, so its your decision what you do with the spots, and if you want to sell them for a small price thats up to you,
    Apple cannot stop you because they sold 100 spots to one person who is going to end up selling or giving away spots to other people, its how the internet works, distribution! some people help others, some people flame other, we have to get used to it
    but you are one of the good people
    thanks again for helping me out
    Thanks Anarchyy. Happy to have helped you out.

    Nitosoft - People have the right to have a choice. 'nuff said.


 

 

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