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Discuss [NAND] No supported NAND found at the Hardware - Hackint0sh.org; Hey guys, wasn't quite sure where to put this so I thought I'd try posting ...
  1. #1
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    Default [NAND] No supported NAND found

    Hey guys, wasn't quite sure where to put this so I thought I'd try posting it here.

    I've got a completely bricked and unresponsive iPhone.
    I've tried all the common tricks under the sun,
    tried restore on:
    2 different Macs, 2 different PCs, iTunes 7.4.2, 7.5 and 7.7, Recovery and DFU, different USB cables and multiple combinations of all of these.

    None of it works. Sometimes I get 1600 series errors but usually I iTunes just hangs at "Waiting for iPhone..." and the phone displays the Apple logo with a spinning pinwheel below. It hangs like this indefinitely, I once had it running between 8-10 hours and nothing happened.

    I tried messing around with iLiberty, PwngTool and ZipPhone... but all these are streamlined for usability without knowledge so in my obviously out of the ordinary scenario they were no help.

    This lead me to iBooter.


    The way it was before:
    Hacked (Unlock+Jailbreak) from new in March using iNdependence (I think, not quite sure but it was advocated by hackthatphone.com in March so I doubt it was ZipPhone) running 1.1.3 on baseband 4.4.5_G... or so I think, I never paid much attention to it as it just worked.

    Then last Friday I dropped it on the floor with the result that it only boots into Recovery mode or, if asked to, into DFU. Now I'm not sure how it really happened as it may be messed up from the fall or it may be messed up from me trying to fix it afterwards using various tools (PwngTool, ZipPhone et al) on the same day as I upgraded to iTunes 7.7 and the FW2.0 came out.

    In any case, here is my iBooter printout:

    **************************************
    iBooter tool by cmw (cmw@toc2rta.com)
    Based on Geohot's kernel driver
    Check out www.iphonelinux.org
    **************************************


    00 00 34 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    00 00 34 12 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    patch_list: 1801fb6c, patch_count: b


    =======================================
    ::
    :: iBoot, Copyright 2007, Apple Inc.
    ::
    :: BUILD_TAG: iBoot-204.3.14
    ::
    :: BUILD_STYLE: RELEASE
    ::
    =======================================

    [FTL:MSG] Apple NAND Driver (AND) 0x43303033
    [NAND] No supported NAND found
    NAND failed initialisation
    Boot Failure Count: 15 Panic Fail Count: 0
    Delaying boot for 0 seconds. Hit enter to break into the command prompt...
    root filesystem mount failed
    USBMPInit()
    Endpoint direction info:
    EP0: BIDIR
    EP1: BIDIR
    EP2: BIDIR
    EP3: BIDIR
    EP4: BIDIR
    EP5: BIDIR
    usbfc_menu_init()
    Entering recovery mode, starting command prompt
    ]
    ] printenv
    printenv
    config_board = 'm68ap'
    loadaddr = '0x9000000'
    boot-command = 'fsboot'
    idle-off = 'true'
    boot-device = 'nand0'
    boot-partition = '0'
    boot-path = '/System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kernelcaches/kernelcache.s5l8900xrb'
    display-color-space = 'RGB888'
    display-timing = 'optC'
    P backlight-level = '34'
    P bootdelay = '0'
    P bl39 = '1'
    P unlock = '1'
    P filesize = '144223249473536000'
    P auto-boot = 'true'
    image-version = '0x2'
    framebuffer = '0xfe00000'
    secure-boot = '0x1'
    ] radio version
    radio version
    04.04.05_G


    What most concernes me here is the lines:
    [NAND] No supported NAND found
    NAND failed initialisation


    Does anyone know what they mean?

    Has anyone seen something like this before and have suggestions for fixes other than "Restore in DFU" and the likes cause I've tried all those a million times.

    Please help, I'm learning a lot about the iPhone in this process but still... I really want my phone back to normal



  2. #2
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    Ok, after a bit of reading I think the NAND in question here is the phones main memory. From the message iBooter gives me it seems the driver for communicating with the memory is in place and in tact and it is in fact the actual NAND device that's not responding.

    NAND flash is a form of solid state memory which leaves me wondering, could a fall to the floor (not very high and a relatively smooth landing) somehow mess up a solid-state memory chip?

    As far as I know these chips are soldered directly to the logic board so I find it very unlikely that one could have come loose on impact...

    If it wasn't the fall, and I haven't ruled it out I'm just speculating, what else could have messed up the memory in this way?

    Could one of the programs I ran have messed the actual memory device up directly? If that's the case the damage is far from irreversible as it could be flashed fresh with a new/correct/original instruction set.

    I'm completely new to all this and really have no idea about this stuff so there must be someone here that knows more on the matter... any insights?

  3. #3
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    It looks like your NAND is physically disconnected somehow.
    The next few lines after the FTL/NAND driver loads should look like:
    Code:
    [NAND] Device ID 0xb614d5ec
    [NAND] BANKS_TOTAL 4
    [NAND] BLOCKS_PER_BANK 4096
    [NAND] SUBLKS_TOTAL 4096
    [NAND] USER_SUBLKS_TOTAL 3872
    [NAND] PAGES_PER_SUBLK 512
    [NAND] PAGES_PER_BANK 524288
    [NAND] SECTORS_PER_PAGE 8
    [NAND] BYTES_PER_SPARE 128
    This is the most basic information probed about the NAND, and the hardware *needs* this information to read to or write to the NAND at all. It seems like the NAND is quite literally physically disconnected, if the driver can't even read the device ID.
    I don't think there's a way software could have broken this, so don't feel bad about your repair attempts. They didn't cause the issue.
    I believe you were *extremely* unlucky and got a bad motherboard which was fragile and damaged in the fall.
    Sadly, there's no way to restore it via software.

    If you're still in warranty, just take it to your friendly Apple Store. It can't read its own memory, so neither can Apple, so they can't give you crap for it being modified, and even though the damage was caused by the fall, it's clearly defective in material and workmanship, as a short fall shouldn't cause the NAND to become disconnected. Just don't mention the fall, and they'll replace it (as long as the fall didn't also damage the case, which it sounds like it didn't).
    If it's out of warranty or you're in an unsupported country, I think you're out of luck

  4. #4
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    Hey, and thank you for your reply...

    I had a brief moment of bliss a minute ago as I sat there thinking about how memory might have lost connection to the rest of the system. I figured it just couldn't be a software fault, that just wouldn't make sense and also figured the NAND chip couldn't be physically damaged as that wouldn't make any sense either.

    So I sat there thinking about the mechanics of the fall and how the chip might have become dislodged or disconnected in it. The phone hit the floor completely flat on it's back meaning the phone traveled towards the floor at a certain velocity and the chip along with it. When the phone then came to a sudden stop completely parallel to the floor the chips kinetic energy would tug on whatever means (most likely soldering) it was/is connected to the PCB. Very basic physics...

    Anyway, at this point I was thinking about opening it and had even got the black, plastic, antenna covering of and was only stopped by the miniature screws. So I figured, how could I apply the same forces as occurred in the fall... only in reverse?

    So I slapped the phone flat against my thigh a few times to simulate the fall only with the screen facing down as opposed to up they way it was in the fall.

    I ran iBooter and... nothing...

    I banged it a few more times, ran iBooter again and... EUREKA! NAND was there...

    It restored perfect in DFU via iTunes no problems... now all I needed to do was to activate and unlock it... but alas once I got back home and swapped the SIM card (I'd replaced the original to see if that would help in restore, I was trying everything at that point) and then NAND was gone again...

    So at least now I know for sure what the problem is; a physically loose/disconnected NAND chip.

    Unfortunately I live in an unsupported country so no warranty for me even though it is cosmetically unscathed from the fall.

    I've basically got two options, have someone try and get it replaced whenever someone I know travels to a supported country. I think this may be a bit of a long shot as I don't have a receipt and the hassle it'd probably put on that person.

    The second option would be to open it up and see if I can locate the loose chip and fix it somehow. If not myself then by a friend of mine who has access to and many years experience with microscopic soldering.

    I have to say though... this has been a great learning experience for me about the inner workings of the iPhone, both software and hardware components. I'm a software engineer and low-level tech geek by trade but up until now had just looked at my iPhone as a tool, it was there, it worked, it required no tinkering or further knowledge from me... Now I'm just that little bit wiser

    Anyway, thanks for the reply and I hope this thread helps anyone else that may run into a similar problem...

    PS: Anyone else who might want to give me any further advice or has any knowledge if problems like these is welcome to post as I'm not completely done with this yet even though I've figured the cause of fault... now it needs fixing...

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    Hey,
    Your friend should be able to repair it with relative ease. As you can see from this image:
    http://images.vnu.net/gb/inquirer/ne.../ibreakone.jpg
    The NAND is a standard Thin Small Outline Package (TSOP) flash chip (luckily, because if it was BGA it'd be an expensive and non-amateur task), which is fairly easy to resolder (it essentially involves flowing a lot of solder over the pins and then removing the excess with a solder wick).

    Good luck, and I think you'll be okay

    http://alphazee.webstrikesolutions.c...optutorial.htm
    There's an overview of the process you our your friend will go through, if you're interested. If you guys open it up and find the chip is still aligned (if it works when you hit it, that's almost certainly the case) you can even skip the hard part (placement) and move straight to "SOLDER BRIDGING AND RE-FLOWING."


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    Sweet, that image is exactly the roadmap I've been searching for to locate the correct parts!

    Thank you so much...

    Considering the NAND chips relative size to the rest of the board it now makes more sense how it could become dislodged... even though it shouldn't

    You've been a great help and I'll keep you posted on how things turn out...

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    Back posting to my own thread with more info...

    This guide (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone/First-Look) is pretty good and combined with the picture in the reply above gives a pretty good idea about how things are laid out on the logicboard and orientation in relation to one another within the phone.

    It seems like a fairly sturdy unit and considering the reinforcing cage they have around the NAND chip I find it increasingly hard to imagine how it could have budged in any way or how any of the solder points could have come under stress. Having said that I think the evidence speaks for itself that this is in fact the problem I'm having. Nothing else can explain how the NAND driver can't find a device but then after a bit of shaking does. Admitedly I haven't been able to shake it better again but it was definitely working for a while after I tried for the first time.

    So... soldiering on in finding a solution (well, I basically have the solution but am digging up as much info as I can before I have the right equipment to deal with it)

    Just thought I'd share the new info.

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    So, status update:

    I opened up the phone and visual inspection of the NAND chips doesn't indicate any loose connections or breaks in the solder joints. Sprayed it with freeze spray to see if I could induce connectivity in any cold solder joints but had no luck. Light tapping hasn't yielded any results either.

    One thing I did notice though. It seems like the 16Gb model has two tsop chips stacked on top of each other, 2x8Gb in serial perhaps? (not too sure how these chips function so I'm just taking a wild guess here). If I apply just the slightest pressure on the top of the stack with a ballpoint pen while turning the phone on it wont boot.

    Could this indicate something? Does that even make sense?
    I'm increasingly skeptical about it really being the chip connections so I want to rule everything else out before I have my mate go to work on resoldering.

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    The stacked chips basically work by talking on the same set of pins except one. There will be one line different to specify which chip (upper or lower) is currently being accessed. They will never be accessed simultaniously.

    If a bit of pressure is all that's necessary to cause the phone to boot, it's definetely a loose connection somewhere. The hard part is whether it's between the chips or between the lower chip and the board.

    I'd say, try to reflow one side of the stack, then see if the problem still exists. Don't get overexcited and reflow both sides and accidentally mess up the alignment.

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    After going at it for a while (trying to fix my iPhone) I gave up on it and returned to using my old Nokia E65.

    Now I'm becoming increasingly irritated by that phone again (it's so halfassed it's unbelievable) and started missing my iPhone.

    I really want to get it up and running again and started digging around.

    I hate to bring back a dead thread like this but I just find it so hard to believe that after all this time no one else has run into a problem like this since then...

    I must be the unluckiest person ever


 

 
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