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Discuss Some things you need to understand... at the General - Hackint0sh.org; I've read a lot of the posts on the forums and I just don't think ...
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    Default Some things you need to understand...

    I've read a lot of the posts on the forums and I just don't think people understand what their up against with Apple and the iPhone. They are very good at maintaining control of their products and in this case they have even more incentive to maintain that control.

    Apple's Position: (I'm not a fan of Apple with the iPhone, just providing their position)

    They have a legal contract with AT&T , O2, and T-Mobile Germany for a specified period of time. They can be sued if the wireless partners deem that they are in breach of contract. They also lose income from kickbacks on iPhone wireless contracts.

    1. Some third party apps allow the phone be used (SIM unlocked) in breach of the above contracts. So, NO third party apps should be installed on the iPhone.

    2. Third party apps can damage the iPhone if programmed incorrectly. This makes the iPhone look bad and costs Apple money to replace or recondition the iPhone back into working order.

    They will do anything they can to stop third party apps from being installed or being used in breach of their contracts with the wireless providers period.


    What you really need to consider:

    The iPhone is still an 1.0 product and is fragile as hell... They brick unmodified phones too with each firmware upgrade.

    If you live in a country that has a contract for the iPhone, get good coverage, and do not need international roaming...

    DO NOT CUSTOMIZE OR UPGRADE YOUR IPHONE. YOU WILL PROBABLY SCREW IT UP OR APPLE WILL DO IT FOR YOU WITH A NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE

    If you don't meet any of the above conditions, get your iPhone into a usable state and then...

    DO NOT CUSTOMIZE OR UPGRADE YOUR IPHONE OR UPGRADE THE FIRMWARE. YOU WILL PROBABLY SCREW IT UP OR APPLE WILL DO IT FOR YOU WITH A NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE

    When you brick your phone, you still have to pay your wireless bill. I hope that you now understand the situation. Act defensively. When in doubt, don't do it.

    David



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    Senior Professional Array slimnickyy's Avatar

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    Good points, but I don't understand the point of your post? Further you obviously do not understand the law that well.

    1) The service contract is between Apple and the respective carrier. It is impossible for a third party (a phone user) that is not named in the contract to "breach" it. So while it's true they are likely relocking the phones to keep their pockets full on the monthly service kick backs, they are under no legal obligation to do so since they themselves didn't breach the contract.

    2) If a user installs unsupported third party apps and damage their phone Apple is not obligated to service it, therefore this isn't really an excuse and it doesn't cost them any money. However to be a moral and reasonable company they should service the phones so long as it's not a major issue. According to Apple people hacking their phones is a limited issue, and from what I recall no one's phone was 'damaged' until Apple released 1.1.1.

    Thus move along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidb367 View Post
    If you live in a country that has a contract for the iPhone, get good coverage, and do not need international roaming...

    DO NOT CUSTOMIZE OR UPGRADE YOUR IPHONE. YOU WILL PROBABLY SCREW IT UP OR APPLE WILL DO IT FOR YOU WITH A NEW FIRMWARE UPDATE
    I read you Dave [/hal]

    However the world is not just the USA. And the iPhone is a high-end product that is likely to be bought by Americans who *do* travel outside their borders, not hicks from the sticks.

    Furthermore, Europe is a *small* place. I can drive through 5 different countries in a day and 'international roaming' is almost essential. Given international roaming costs, anyone in Europe who does any sort of travelling at all (which is a much higher proportion than Americans) will want to be able to use multiple SIMs.

    It really is as SIMple as that. Everything you say is correct, but there is a HELL of lot more demand for SIM-unlockability amongst the sort of people in Europe who will buy the phone. Even moreso because there are countries in Europe where SIM-locking is expressly illegal (Belgium, and IIRC Italy, which has a huge high-end mobile phone market) - presumably Apple will simply refuse to sell in those countries, making them seem like greedy little fuckers, which is what they've become.

    As long as Apple continue this policy, there will be a large demand for easy-to-use unlocks in Europe. That much I can be certain about. The market is just so much more liquid over here - more network providers, more choice, and the fact that most (even top-end) subsidised phones are sold SIM-unlocked - yes you have to pay your monthly fees for your contract, but Vodafone won't stop me using someone else's SIM on a top-end phone in Switzerland, for example. This shit was stopped in the UK years ago, and Apple are trying to bring it back. It won't go down well with customers, since European countries are SMALL and we move around a lot.

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    Dave,

    You sound like a lawyer

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    I know you are Steve Jobs.........yes, you are, don't lie to me........


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    I fully understand people who have phones outside the US. The post is still valid. Make the iPhone work for you, but don't mess with it after that. Apple will try to lock you out. And at some point they will close all the holes and you'll be screwed.

    I'm not a lawyer. I'm a Mac programmer who has worked with Apple. The company I worked for was screwed by Apple many times over.

    The wireless providers will sue Apple for not honoring their contract with the providers. The user is of no concern for Apple. They will make sure the iPhone cannot be used in a way that puts them at risk.
    Last edited by davidb367; 09-30-2007 at 09:06 PM.

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    legal issues aside I don't think you can blame people for wanting to unlock.

    I live in the UK and the iphone is out and locked to O2 here next month. I use my phone for business and home and have had the same number for 5+ years, running on vodafone. Number porting is a nightmare over here so changing providers isn't something I consider an option, and why should i have to?

    Whilst I understand Apple's business strategy I personally believe that the iphone is a good enough product to sell across all the networks and perhaps simfree (at a premium) and still generate the revenues.

    Apples strategy seems, in some ways at least, contradictory. They want to revolutionise the mobile phone, yet they are limiting their user base massively.

    You have to wonder whether they really want to reach the masses, or whether they want to keep Apple as a premium brand with a niche market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidb367 View Post

    I'm not a lawyer. I'm a Mac programmer who has worked with Apple. The company I worked for was screwed by Apple many times over.

    The wireless providers will sue Apple for not honoring their contract with the providers. The user is of no concern for Apple. They will make sure the iPhone cannot be used in a way that puts them at risk.
    I know you're not a lawyer since you do not understand the law. Read my post above, Apple cannot be liable for breach at all if a un-named third party unlocks the phone. They are only doing it for $$$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidb367 View Post
    And at some point they will close all the holes and you'll be screwed.
    I have to disagree. Apple are, as we say in England, "pi**ing in to the wind". Its the same as copy protection, if its engineered it can (and probably will) always be reverse engineered. There is such a community around the iphone that people will overcome the obstacles.

    Even if the updates aren't 'fixed' whats the worst case scenario? you just leave your iphone on 1.02 (or the last 'holey' version). I don't know about anyone else on here, but I would rather have an iphone running a slightly older software version than no iphone at all, and is that such a disaster?

    People won't be screwed, they will just choose not to apply an update that 'closes all the holes' in the unlikely event that such an update is ever produced.

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    OP is right on about iPhone being a 1.0 product, therein lies the problem n hence need to upgrade f/w. I've never updated any firmware in any phones because there's no need to. With the iPhone, it is different, f/w upgrades does fix specific issues. 1.1.1 fixes the caller volume problem. That's important to anyone using the iPhone as a Phone! If 1.1.2 adds cut and pastes and multiple recipient in SMS, that's also an essential upgrade. Apple simply sees f/w upgrade as "service" and those who unlocked are no longer eligible for any. I don't like this but I can't fault their reasoning either.


 

 
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