Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 34
Discuss SIM Unlock solution possible but useless? at the General - Hackint0sh.org; there is no way that apple could generate the same revenues with a locked phone ...
  1. #21
    Professional Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    there is no way that apple could generate the same revenues with a locked phone and AT&T as they would with an unlock and accessible to everyone. Also I don't think they would care about any consequences if they don't honour the agreement with AT&T they will make more than enough to cover a law suit. Im sure they were well aware of hacking and the dev team and will benefit from the unlock.


  2. #22
    Senior Professional Array

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    17

    Cool

    [QUOTE=997TT;12216]Things aren't that simple I'm afraid. I know somebody who works for Apple USA in a higher position (NYC branch) and he told me that Apple NEEDS to do everything possible to "fight" a possible unlock hack mostly because of their contract with AT&T. Another problem is of course the fact that Apple apparently wants to use the same marketing strategy (ONE cell phone service provider in each country) in Europe and Asia too, so these future "partners" are also very interested in keeping the iPhone LOCKED. What some people, including the US, don't seem to realize is that the price tag of the iPhone is the one of a SUBSIDIZED phone, no matter how much Apple pays for manufacturing the iPhone. I know that many people feel that they paid enough money, so they have the "right" to do what they want with their phone but things aren't that easy I'm afraid.

    Well Agreed on many points mate, however I disagree with you on the price tag... Writing a tag "SUBSIDIZED" in fine prints doesn't really make it subsidized... But since they are the owner the of product, they ve a right to do whatever with it... Deals etc etc. But one thing tickles me that it is always the case with apple brand, they don't make too many partners, and they try to charge as high as possible with all their new products to get the premium from first time buyers and so... This is a result of being a small company and greed and "so called snobbishness" MS is bigger (whether better bla bla debate or not) as a result of apple's 60 years old management mindset... Many companies fail to do good business (i m not talking about just business) for the same reasons... As long as apple stays closed, they wont do well in business, apart from some cool gadgets' success... eg ipod and iphone... But if u rely on only this kind of strategy for too long (excuse me but as dumb steve doing) apple will go back to their dark age soon enough...

    Like sam said, it is not too hard to create couple customized settings in the phone, and that way, they would sell millions of iphones... Include that 150-200$ premium that rumoured att pays per/iphone sale (i seriously doubt that) it would cost about 700-800$ and people would still buy it, but not in thousands probably figures would hit 10+millions by now... If you think of 2 years contract, it is not a customer satisfaction friendly contract... therefore figures for sales, and real activated new iphone contracts are declining so badly....

    Truth is apple owns the product rite? Yeah. Why would u limit yourself from possible 10+ times sales figures than now if not 100+??? Why are they locking themselves up?

    People know the truth but do not understand why apple cannot see the mistake?

    You cannot monopolize in all sort of product markets at once... Many companies try to do so failed miserably already, why still insist with that strategy?

    So it comes down to a question? What is apple really doing? Who knows? Just my guess "Showing Off"... But to who? Mirror...
    Last edited by mysticusa; 07-30-2007 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #23
    Amazingly Knowledgeable Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Meade
    Posts
    941
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticusa View Post
    Truth is apple owns the product rite? Yeah. Why would u limit yourself from possible 10+ times sales figures than now if not 100+??? Why are they locking themselves up?

    People know the truth but do not understand why apple cannot see the mistake?

    You cannot monopolize in all sort of product markets at once... Many companies try to do so failed miserably already, why still insist with that strategy?

    So it comes down to a question? What is apple really doing? Who knows? Just my guess "Showing Off"... But to who? Mirror...

    Is it really THAT difficult to understand? Think as a business man, not as a customer. Apple has only ONE SINGLE leverage on cell phone service providers to get what they want, meaning a piece of the call revenue cake and an additional bonus for each iPhone sold (or subscribed?). Cell phone service providers would only agree to such an exclusive (and VERY expensive) contract with Apple if Apple makes sure that the contract REALLY stays exclusive. You're making the wrong assumption that the SIM Lock is just something AT&T imposed on Apple but it is actually the other way around. Apple seems to use the SIM Lock for marketing the iPhone and even more: for offering their cell phone service partners a great business opportunity to be the single carrier in their country to offer the iPhone exlusively. You can't even imagine how important this is because this is actually the only way Apple can control the iPhone price tag, keeping it at a pretty stable level AND at the same time earning additional money with each iPhone subscription. Try to understand: selling the iPhone to customers is only HALF the part of the deal, the other part is to gain revenue from the cell phone service providers. It sounds pretty complicated but actually it is pretty easy. Apple and AT&T have both a vital interest to make SIM unlocks as hard as possible.

    Wait until the first working SIM unlock solution is available and it won't be long until Apple and AT&T respond to this "threat" in a way or another.
    Since the Euro iPhone business plan seems to be similar to the AT&T deal in the US (ONE single cell phone service provider in each country), Apple can't afford to loose the leverage on the interested parties (providers) in Europe. If a SIM unlock is as easy as eating a piece of cake, European cell phone service providers may not be interested to pay big money to Apple for delivering...unlocked phones with contracts at other providers. No way, Apple WILL fight and I just hope that the countermeasures will be limited to programming fights and not legal fights involving their law department. The dev team should be careful with the SIM unlock hack as soon as Apple starts to offer the iPhone in Europe because to my knowledge, the European parliament just passed (or will pass) a new "anti-hacking" law which makes ANY decryption of encrypted and licensed commercial software/firmware/etc. highly illegal. It would be "healthier" for us all if the dev team finishes the SIM unlock hack BEFORE Apple enters the Euro market, just a thought.

  4. #24
    Amazingly Knowledgeable Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Meade
    Posts
    941
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymac View Post
    there is no way that apple could generate the same revenues with a locked phone and AT&T as they would with an unlock and accessible to everyone. Also I don't think they would care about any consequences if they don't honour the agreement with AT&T they will make more than enough to cover a law suit. Im sure they were well aware of hacking and the dev team and will benefit from the unlock.
    Add the 150-200 USD "bonus" for each (subscribed?) iPhone and I'm pretty sure that they generate more revenue. If Apple risks a lawsuit with AT&T, they loose the leverage on other cell phone service providers worldwide. No way this will happen, believe me.
    Of course Apple is and was aware of hacking attempts, especially since unlocking GSM phones has already some sort of tradition in Europe and Asia. However, this isn't the same situation and Apple built their whole business plan around the fact that the iPhone will stay an EXCLUSIVE item to make it something desireable, something special. This strategy always worked great for them, look at the Core Duo Intel laptop processor for example, I owned an Acer Travelmate 8204 with Core Duo processor almost three months before Apple announced the Intel deal and the "sensational" new power of two cores in a laptop. :p Everything is about marketing and Apple can't afford to loose this leverage. They will fight back as soon as the unlock hack is available, trust me. It is easier for Apple to sit back and relax to see what security flaws and holes are available, so hackers succed in hacking the OS. Apple already started analyzing the data to make sure that the current methods won't work with the next firmware update.

    It will be very exciting to see what happens after the unlock hack, it may not even happen immediately after a day or two. Just imagine how the press WORLDWIDE will have sensational headlines about a SIM unlock hack, making not only Apple and AT&T look stupid in front of the whole world but also the customers who paid a lot of money to get a two year contract with AT&T. Again, trust me...the war hasn't even started, the iPhone is not Apple TV, the iPhone is Apple's "gold mule" and they can't allow anybody to hurt or even kill this mule. Let's talk about this in 6 months and you'll understand.

    Despite the positive image (Apple wants us to believe that they're the good guys and Microsoft are the bad guys), Apple is a billions dollar company and they have to do everything possible to satisfy shareholders and to protect their copyright and business models. I bet that Apple's teeth are much sharper than the ones of Microsoft.

  5. #25
    Senior Professional Array

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Yeah but it comes down to same answer, they want to monopolize, and they want the carrier to monopolize, this strategy is already proven wrong mate, i understand everything u r saying, just the part, why monopolize?
    This is the part people see the mistake, cellphone market is a very matured market, but insisting on iphone's current marketing strategy will fail apple big time in my opinion (well it is still a big gamble-in pls stop saying like ur idea is better than mine, i m not claiming ur idea is bad or good, but discussing the apple's strategy...) we will see how it will continue in europe sales?

    I have very big doubts that people will commit 2 years contract here and at the same time FULL PRICED phone... (u may still argue that it is not full priced)

    I hope at least O2 will not do the same mistake as AT&T doing in sales of the iphone...

    There is nothing wrong with apple's strategy of course apart from being old minded, and local oriented ( maybe US customers really like that kind of commitments and dont mind paying full price for a phone)... I just find it hard to believe that they will achieve same success with the same launch story in europe...

    I am taking at the wait and see approach...


  6. #26
    Senior Professional Array

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    One last comment on this subject as it is heading to apple is better than ms argument, same stupid argument...

    If apple is billion $ company, ms is 100+billion $ company...

    They have their stuff like me you or any other programmer, and they all try their best to do things right... Saying dumb comments like apple is better than ms is nothing but empty headed comments...

    If u compare, Apple has its own good products, and so ms is...

    to convert it to $, ms had 40+billion $ from only vista's launch until now, if apple is clever better and has bigger teeth than ms why are not even 10% of ms?

    of course they are different type of companies, and what u say is apple is better than orange, what?

    apple known to be the most secure producer? now people made here couple of programs that lead to full control of iphone! never heard of such thing in another phone? dont u think that make apple look stupid? how is their image is effected... there is will , there is hack, same goes ms and apple equally, just apple lovers dont publish it, so not many people know about it, and ms haters publish it every possible corner so that try to make ms look stupid.... i hope it gives clues how things work...

    60 yrs old mind set at apple wont bring them too far...

    Like said, 150-200$ is not much, and would be sacrificed by possible buyers in exchange for unlocked phone... But it is not the case here, they sold say 500thousand phones (they publised 250thousand) and i dont know how many after launch until now... But they small mind set of apple's leader of trying to monopolize (all hypes) will haunt them down, if the same US strategy carried to other partners in europe...

    The demand is already showing in unlocked device side, because of the offer (u pay full price + 2 yrs contract to use the phone)...and the new att activated iphone figures... If it is too hard to see?

    Hacking eventually happens all the time with given time and determination, and if it will make apple look stupid, sure it is done by now, as its secure company image is torn apart... next is unlock image...

    once the unlock happens, it wont be too hard to modify&extract "new upgrade firmware's individual programs"...

  7. #27
    Amazingly Knowledgeable Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fort Meade
    Posts
    941
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    55

    Default

    First, I think there is a misunderstanding. I didn't say that Apple is better or worse than Microsoft. I have to admit that ALL of my private and business laptops are running on Windows Vista and surprisingly well. My office desktop is running Windows XP Pro because I still have a couple of banking/accounting software which hasn't been officially certified with Vista yet.
    My company server runs on Linux, my webserver runs on Linux, even my satellite receiver runs on Linux. I have only two Macs, a Dual G5 PPC and a MacMini Core Duo, both running on OSX. I always use what I like and what serves me best, I'm not an Apple or Microsoft "fanboy", just for the book.

    I understand what you mean very well but you also need to understand that Apple has a certain business plan and they stick to it. It may change after a while, it may be corrected/adapted but they started it and up til now, it may have worked well for Apple. I don't know if the US is comparable to the European GSM market but I'm pretty sure Apple learns fast.
    Maybe the want to learn from mistakes they made with the Motorola ROKR(?) iTunes phone which was priced at the lower side and available to everybody. Maybe Apple NEEDS to maintain a certain exclusivity to make them different from the others. Imagine a nice a fancy country club for "rich" people only: everybody wants in but only a few can. Of course everybody starts to rant/brag about this ("unfair", "unjust", "blind", whatever) country club but anybody who gets the chance to be a member, goes there. The same with the iPhone: you criticize Apple but in the end, if you can't get ahold of an unlock hack, you'll take the plunge and get an iPhone through an official contract. Wanna bet? So this is why Apple can't afford to let things flow naturally, they have to fight back and they will.

  8. #28
    Professional Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    just remember the old saying " there is always someone quicker than you and smarter than you." lets just hope that guy is on the dev team!

  9. #29
    Senior Professional Array

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Sorry for the misunderstanding...

    I bet my 2 cents people wont switch to apple&att as you say... plus Motorola mistake is different as it is only itunes software and vice versa... this is a real money making product and locking it to one network in each country, is not a good move as it contains very dangerous side effects... if you think otherwise 1/5 of sold iphones are realy activated on at&t and they dont really show figures for canceled contracts is a proof already...

    In my opinion it would be wise decision to make an exclusive deal better, would be not to lock iphone that easily to cut down the sales... Apple would fully subsidize the phone with apple, and att would in return ask customers to switch to 2 yrs contract for say 200$ iphone or different kind of rewarding system, and ask say 800-1000$ for an unlocked device...

    Apple would do much better sales figures, and so att...

    Country club example of yours is a different story and is completely private issue related to what it offers, and how much...

    Phone is common device for everyday use, and iphone doesnt really goes to country club example as it doesnt really have something too diverse in terms technology, it just offers nice design and user interface apart from that, everything it does is done many other products...

    If you wanna compare it to country club, than add couple xK diamonds on it, there you go...

    Everyone wants Ferrari but not everyone can afford it... there you compare..

    But when it comes down to iphone, u can afford it but u cant use it as u like... Say u buy a toyota corolla, but toyota says u r not allowed to buy gas for that model from anywhere but chevron only, and it has device that release the cover... so u cant buy gas from anywhere u want...

    That s i think the example to compare the current situation... and the mistake they are making... I hope apple learns faster like u said...

    Also one thing tickle's me... If apple made deal based on per device sale and/or per device activated... And the activation/sales figures are declining, apple can/should argue that att is effecting its real sales therefore they can cancel the contracts say, apple did its part in locking the phone, but att didnt ensure customers to buy it, (i mean proper planning to attract customers) therefore apple is hurt
    Last edited by mysticusa; 07-30-2007 at 11:29 PM.

  10. #30
    hak
    hak is offline
    Advanced Array

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Personally I think that both Apple and AT&T are not going to waste time and money on continually developing a lock solution if the current iPhone gets unlocked. They have locked it (initially) and this will protect them in this market for the duration of the products lifecycle. The reason I say this is that the vast majority of people (80-90%) probably don't think about what it means to unlock the phone and will probably never need the benefits of unlocking the phone. I think the percentage of people who have bought the iPhone with the hopes of one day getting it unlocked are tiny compared to the previous group (the one that bought the phone, activated it right away on the ATT plans).
    This evidence comes also from other phones popular phones that have been sold in the past, RAZR, etc. People buy them. Drop in the SIM card and use them. Unlocking means nothing to most of them.

    Apple would spend their money on developing more products rather than putting money into preventing a very small group of people who wish to unlock their phone.

    For the argument that unlocked phones would sell in other markets (prior to official launch), the answer is that the selling time (providing the phone does get unlocked) would be very short, and there is no real price advantage (distribution in USA is very controlled, ATT and Apple Stores) for people to order phones. I think the early adopters and techies would jump in and buy, but the majority wouldn't be in the loop, so the vast majority of sales for foreign markets would occur when Apple releases it there. You have to take a step back and see what proportion of the consumer population really frequent these kinds of forums and the iPhone Dev site, etc, and also the proportion of people that buy/hack, etc based on info on these sites.

    This is my 0.02.


 

 
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. BL3.9 - Best Unlock Solution
    By ChaosAngel in forum iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-19-2008, 07:57 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-09-2008, 01:40 AM
  3. [1.1.2 OTB] Software Unlock: Useless (?) Chat
    By v@g in forum iPhone "2G" (Rev. 1)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-01-2008, 03:07 PM
  4. Replies: 43
    Last Post: 12-31-2007, 01:36 AM
  5. Unlock Solution
    By mank in forum General
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-27-2007, 06:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
(c) 2006-2012 Hackint0sh.org
All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:17 PM.
twitter, follow us!