Discuss Shady Business at best...Thrash at the General - Hackint0sh.org; There have been a lot of conspiracy theories about what is going on.
After having ...
Shady Business at best...Thrash
There have been a lot of conspiracy theories about what is going on.
After having read every thread and seeing what's being said at Gizmodo and Engadget, here is my opinion.
First of all, let me introduce myself. I run an online business and lose more than 100k a year (USD) from chargebacks from customers who have received their goods. The problem is that we deal with online services and Paypal and credit card companies will always screw the business in order to make their customers happy. There is almost no way to win these situations because there is no physical shipping proof that the service was rendered. All they ask for is a UPS, USPS, or FedEx shipping number. If you can't provide that, you are hosed. Furthermore, you will be charged a service fee if the customer paid via credit card (usually 10 to 15 bucks!). Yes Trash, you are screwed!
Now back to the debacle on hand.
Trash was the first to distribute the first 250 IPSF licenses. That much is true. However, he got quite a bit of prepayments (in the thousands I would assume). There is no way know if he ever fronted any of his money.
List 2 came in late, very late! But let's look at the facts.
It looks like he sent payment for list 2 on the 11th from the invoice she showed. Though many many of yo asked for the other invoices, they were never shown on the net. This can only mean it's because he wants to hide the fact that they were either never sent or he wants to hide the date that they were sent.
Trying to avoid risk knowing that perhaps a free unlock would come out, I believe Trash held out on giving the payments to IPSF.
Let's look at some of the other factors.
1. Once the natives got restless, Trash quickly jumped tried to make a deal with the thief harro to try to distrubute his stolen free unlock, thinking that an unlock is an unlock and the customers wouldn't care. The deal was detailed at gizmodo:
2. Trash may have been hoping that by giving money to the "devs" that he would appease the angry crowd and still try to eek out a profit. With the number of licenses he sold, minus the list one and two, minus the $50k to harro, I still think he was invisioning that he would make a nice little profit and appease the angry mob by stating that he was giving the customer's money to the devs (though many customers were against him "donating" their money. If people want to donate their money, they can do it themselves
3. Trashe's site was removed as a reseller from IPSF, while most others remained. Furthermore, besides Trash and the Aussies, there were no reports of any other companies having these "supposed" problems that Trash was having. Wireless imports (though expensive) has been a long established business known for the mobile phones and their unlocks and not a peep out of them.
4. Freeit4less who sent in payment over the last weekend was able to provide the unlock license about 30 hours ago. Having seen the date on the wire transfer that Trash sent out (that he displayed on the web) that seems about right. Wire transfers take a few business days to arrive at the receiving bank. Once that is done, IPSF processes IMEIs and then sends the reseller a confirmation. I am assuming that the proof of the wire transfer Trash showed was for list 2. That is why your licenses came in late! I deal with international wires on a daily basis and to tell you the truth, IPSF processed those IMEIs fast from the time the wire transfer would have arrived.
5. Trash never stopped trying to sell licenses. Even after all of his self proclaimed problems and "loss of faith" in IPSF, he still tried to keep generating funds. Even when he said he found a new supplier (harro the scammer), he was still trying to sell the free solution at the original price.
6. He was never transparent. Only after the angry mob demanded over and over again and when he thought he was in deep shit, did he provide one remit slip for the wire transfer. Where are all the others?? This was done only to buy himself some time until either IPSF would receive the wire and process the IMEIs or the gulllible people out there would take the "free" unlock he was offering. Either way, he thought he was hedging his odds in order to keep your money.
7. List 3 is now being processed. My guess is that Trash wanted to see how things would plan out before he kept on forwarding your money to the IPSF company. Substituting the IPSF license for the free one didn't pan out for him so he's trying to quickly back peddle back to IPSF. While I am sure IPSF is pissed off, they are a business too and they don't turn down money.
8. Deceptive emails. We've all seen this one, we have hooked up with a new supplier and are still providing you with an unlock solution. Your license will be sent out in 2 hours, 2 hours, 2 hours, blah blah blah. Not once was he forthcoming with the truth. Every email he sent out was another squirt of the perfume to try to cover up the stink.
9. Another highly regarded online blog about tech (Engadget) confirms that IPSF is continuing business as usual and names Trash's moves as sketchy: http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/12/i...-unlock-plans/
I could go on and on but I know you guys out there are smart.
The plain truth is Trash hid the fact that he used your money for the licenses instead of fronting his own. He didn't want to take that big risk that half of you are patting him on the back for. In the process of that, he then had to lie over and over again to hide this fact. This got him in deeper hot water as the free unlocks started to surface and being a shady character, he not only kept lying to cover his ass but he then started to look for some ways to maximize his own profits by appealing to everyone's like of the devs.
Who knows what will happen in the end. He's off IPSF's list as a reseller. Half the people here are still angry. Also, there are a bunch of people here that since the real free unlock came out (and is still coming out with the easy gui), that will do chargebacks even though they got their unlocks from Trash.
I don't think Trash is totally evil. I never said that. I just think he doesn't know how to run a business and he thought he could pull the wool over your eyes.
The thing about the hacking community is that you guys aren't the average dopes out there. You guys are able to read and put 2 and 2 together.
I suggest you do that before you ask for your money back through chargebacks or what not.
In the future Trash, I have found that doing business honestly is the only way to go. Your customer base is not so foolish that you can trick them every time. If they find out they have been tricked, they will crucify you. Even if you can continue through IPSF and do the 3rd and 4th lists. I would recommend against it. There will be a huge flow of dishonest customers as well that will do chargebacks and they will win each and every time. In the end, you will probably just end up losing or breaking even after all that effort.
salient, rational post. no one said Trash was a scammer. He just probably underestimated the power of irate customers.
I for one am interested to find out what happens, whether customers like us are able to get our money back.
That being said, I believe Trash has stated in his emails to us that he is going to dispute every claim, there will be no refunds, and that's final.
Trash is bent on keeping every single cent from his customers.
I'm sure he is. He's out to make money. I can't blame him for trying to make money but if you don't do it in an honest manner, you will get screwed in the long run.
Even if everyone decides to believe string of lies (or half truths) he's been putting out. I think there are enough dishonest customers that are going to be doing chargebacks for quite a while to come.
If there were no free unlock available, I would say he's in the clear but once a gui friendly one comes out, I think he's in trouble.
Update: Looks like he finally admitted the hold up was because of wire transfer not clearing IPSF's bank. That's what happens when you send out money late but keep on lying to your customers and telling them it was sent a long time ago.
He should have been up front and not told everyone he's fronting his own money because clearly it was/is not the case.
Great post -- a man [or woman] after my own heart.
I do believe that Trash was only trying to satisfy everyone's request as he had promised he would. It's a shame, however, that he allowed the angry mob get the best of him and this influenced his better judgement and forced him to reach without thinking through what he was doing.
As one of the initial 250 that received their licenses, I must say that until the non-IPSF unlock was announced and things started getting a little crazy, I was quite happy with the service that I had received.
If only you can read my thread about this Trashy business way before he started scamming people; and the flurry of insults I received is proof how fool and ill prepared these guys calling him "GOD" and a "HERO" are.
Originally Posted by wangkom
I saw right through his scheme ( note scheme not scam) he used other people money and sold them what they PAID him to buy with profit, not bad , rather smart but the despair in these guys reading this forum was so intense that they didn't think a second about sending him their money to Finance HIS business.
This said I can tell you what I have been hiding for last month or so, I am a very reputable and highly recognized eBay PowerSeller for Years, I am in the business right now of re-selling IPHONES and IPSF Licenses, what I did was completely diferent and absolutely honest: I shell out 3600$ and change for the wire, secured 100 licenses that I am selling on ebay, with instant delivery, at times I take the luxury to turn down customers because my feeling was they are not ready to use the software, I get paid through
Paypal and since it is a digital delivery there is no claim or dispute or chargebacks, whoever got it and was able to use it has only praise for the software and the service.
N>B> I am not using this fake newly found ID on eBay but you can easily find me if you use your imagination.
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