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Discuss An Open Letter to iPhoneSimFree et al. at the General - Hackint0sh.org; ...
  1. #11
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    Lmao....

    This is a phone last time i checked....you´re a tool man, sry

    ---> Who cares.


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddy123 View Post
    What I concerned is that they release the software on time.
    might have people crashing their server and maybe even the payment systems too

  3. #13
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    Question

    You make clear and lucid arguments, but one counterpoint is simply why George Hotz hasn't been arrested yet?

    He has not only published freely tools and methodology for the hardware unlock (which plenty of small shops are taking up commercially by the way), but also named the companies he's 'consulting' for i.e. training up in his method. One must presume that these companies are going to sell unlocking services. If Certicell and Puremobile are going to be selling unlocking services, then they presumably are liable to the same legal assault that the software guys are. And presumably Certicell and Puremobile have already taken legal advice re: associating with Hotz. Note that Hotz's blog hasn't been taken down, nor have sites offering his tools for download been stopped. AFAIK the Dev Team haven't been pursued for offering their NORdumper tool for download (which effectively produces a file that contains other companies' IP... reversing of which is expressly against the licence agreement, but Apple seem to be turning a blind eye to the dev team who are quite clearly doing *exactly that*)...

    I agree that a big entity like Apple and (bigger, and more likely) AT&T have global legal recourse if they want to, though I dispute that either iPhoneSimFree or iPhoneUnlocking directors could end up in jail anywhere in Europe - it'd be a civil rather than criminal case, but would almost certainly be financially impossible to defend against.

    If anything the message is very clear from consumers - that we don't want locked phones, and that we want choice. This is a much bigger deal in Europe due to the increased choice of networks. Given the almighty fuss about unlocking in the USA even when the nation only has TWO GSM carriers (!!!!) - Apple ought to listen to customers when offering to European countries that often have more than 5 options.

    And with this clearly being the case, Apple have an absolute negative incentive to aggressively stamp out either unlocking firm legally. Currently, Apple ride high on a Google-like 'don't be evil' wave against Microsoft, forced DRM and anti-customer practices. Reputation and image like this costs a LOT of time and money and, let's be honest, some actual honesty. Wasn't it Jobs who said 'any protection scheme based on secrets eventually fails'?

    And lest we forget, Jobs and Wozniak were phreakers. It would be the supreme irony for Jobs to instigate a bullying legal battle with phone unlockers, and would in, many people's eyes, damage the brand. Apple would be seen as no better than the RIAA, the MPAA and Microsoft.

    Now AT&T have a case, as they have more to lose. But what do they have to lose currently if the iPhone customer is not a US resident and has never signed a contract with AT&T? I am in the UK, and have an iPhone that was purchased in an American Apple Store, no AT&T contract was signed either by the purchaser or myself. If I use software provided to let me use the Vodafone network (which I am paying for) then how do AT&T have a legal case against me? Certainly under UK law I can't see what I'm doing wrong here... given that Vodafone supply me a SIM, I pay them, and I can use said SIM in any GSM phone as per my contract with Vodafone.

    I'll throw this up in the air. Let's say both firms release the software and 'due to legal reasons' don't allow purchases from the USA - much as many USA retailers won't allow non-residents to buy from them... which laws are broken then? This then puts the legal blame back on the end-user, who in general won't give a damn anyway...

    The essential thing IMO is for the hackers to get the SIM-free hack out in the open *before* Apple sell the iPhone in EMEA markets.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    haha sorry eddy i meant snowbird!! You're fine!
    LOL. Than I sit back and wait for software unlock:p

  5. #15
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    Very well put. For all of you too lazy to read it, it is unfortunate. I couldn't agree with Snowbird anymore. iPhonesimfree.com et al. should not take money for this unlock. They will end up being crushed by the multibillion dollar corporations.


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    I don't think it's laziness... this same sentiment has been expressed SO many times here and on other blogs, it's not really novel.

  7. #17
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    First of all, that was long. HFS.

    Secondly, I agree that Apple stands to lose something by unlocked phones the truth is that they aren't going to lose that much. The people who will buy locked phones and then get them unlocked tend to be enthusiasts or geeks,...it isn't mainstream at all and it never will be. Also consider that the large percentage of people who go to this trouble would never have been on at&t in any case...so it isn't lost revenue as such. So they lose, yes, but not on the scale that you are depicting. Also remember that it's still iPods that bring home the bacon.

    Thirdly. Any premise you have which hangs on Steve Jobs and Apple not knowing that the phone would eventually be unlocked is hard to take seriously. If it can be made by man, it can be unmade by man.

    They couldn't even manage to lock down OS X from the OSX86 gang. And Microsoft can't secure Vista from being hacked and pirated. DVD, HD-DVD...and so on. Nerds won't be stopped. And I think Steve is wise enough to understand and to have planned for that in their projections. This is a blip to them. Not the harbinger of economic doom you make it out to be.

    Now go get some sleep. I don't want to see you in here for the next 48 hours!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberface View Post
    You make clear and lucid arguments, but one counterpoint is simply why George Hotz hasn't been arrested yet?
    They don't want to waste their time going after Hotz's unlock because it will never reach the masses. Also, a lot of people are, or will be, bricking their phones by trying Hotz's method, which only leads to more sales.

  9. #19
    Senior Professional Array cyberface's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by amagab View Post
    They don't want to waste their time going after Hotz's unlock because it will never reach the masses. Also, a lot of people are, or will be, bricking their phones by trying Hotz's method, which only leads to more sales.
    True, but neither will any unlocking method that requires jailbreak, unix kit install on the phone, and command line hackery. It will be left to phone shops and enthusiasts and hackers, which is exactly the same as Hotz's method.

    If there was a one-click risk-free software unlock, then maybe it could be distributed 'to the masses'.... but AFAIK there isn't. And all the (shaky) evidence for software unlocks (the SimFree FAQ, the Unlocking video, etc.) imply that command line is required, and they seem to be seeking to resell to phone shops rather than sell to the public. If the crack exists, of course...

  10. #20
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    Cyberface,

    George Holz' exploit was provided freely and openly to all. iPhoneSimFree has asked that you pay for their solution and have even setup a website that will be used to receive payments via many different means. There is a very large difference as far as the law is concerned. The only exception being when said free “information” jeopardises national security.

    Re: the Dev Team's exploits. For Apple, the Dev team fulfils an invaluable function for them that will only contribute to making their product better and securer in the future. Their works are benevolent and welcome to all, since it opens the door for add-ons and new uses that even Apple haven’t thought about.


 

 
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