Originally Posted by truehybridx

lol their trusted boot chain?? its still intact on the 3g.... kinda

Just kinda

Originally Posted by Number_41

If you believe that editing the iPhone OS as being illegal and against the Terms & Conditions agreement, then yes it is.

I mean we've been in the grey area until Apple declared it as such. Until a few days ago, jailbreaking was just considered "not in-warranty" situation.

So, in short. Yes and No. Just depends how you look at it.

N41

I agree it's a grey area

But in my mind once I've purchased an iPhone, paid all the duty owed to apple to own the product, what I then do with it is up 2 me.

And I real find it hard to imagine any court of law ruling I couldn't do that

Originally Posted by Number_41

If you believe that editing the iPhone OS as being illegal and against the Terms & Conditions agreement, then yes it is.

Is this only for the 3G iPhone? Because I don't recall signing any agreement when I bought my 2G phone.

i dont remember signing any agreement when obtaining my 3g off craigs list lol

its not like when you restore it asks you to accept anything

Originally Posted by Jim Danner

Is this only for the 3G iPhone? Because I don't recall signing any agreement when I bought my 2G phone.

Well, thats the thing. Usage of the product constitutes as agreeing to the Agreement. And thats not from me. Open up a new Macbook Pro software package or an Apple CD package.

The other thing is that now with the 3G they make sure you agree to the Terms and Agreements, including warranty. Which is another reason why you NEED to sign up for a contract once you purchase a phone.

N41

This is only true for countries where exclusive contracts exist. In others you can run down to your local mobile store, put your bucks on the table, get your phone and run back home again. You don't sign anything. The 3G contract thing in the US and other countries is only there cause in the 2G era, insane amounts of phones were gray exported or just unlocked and used with other carries and AT&T was pissed about it. Well understandable, they failed to think about it before signing the multi million $$ contract with apple.

and yet even with the contracts ppl still get unlocked phones, they just make it a lil harder

Originally Posted by Number_41

Well, thats the thing. Usage of the product constitutes as agreeing to the Agreement.

I see what you mean. There's probably a warning on the packaging somewhere, that using it means you agree to something. In the package I found the "Important Product Information Guide". It says on page 15:

Originally Posted by Apple

Use of iPhone is subject to the iPhone Software License Agreement found at: www.apple.com/legal/sla

There you can download the iPhone Terms and Conditions, which say:

Originally Posted by Apple

2(c) You may not and you agree not to [...] decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, modify, or create derivative works of the iPhone Software [...]. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the iPhone Software. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.

This means that a user agrees to not reverse the firmware -- but the question remains whether such a restriction is legally allowed. I think that's what the debate between Apple (supported by record companies) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (supported by Mozilla and others) is really about. And as the OP says, the courts seem to favour "us" the jailbreakers, at least in the USA. That would mean that jailbreaking is legal, simply because Apple has no right to make us agree not to do it.

yea there is no way in hell that they can get away with saying "decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, modify, or create derivative works of the iPhone Software"

i mean... doesnt that kinda turn them into a monopoly again if they try and lock out ANY change the user can make

Which again leads to the problems:

1.) is a post sale restriction legal?
2.) how strong is a EULA in court anyhow
3.) Anyone can download the IPSW i.e. which does not demand agreeing a EULA for it, so you would have firmware to reverse engineer without EULA limitations

There is more than one justristical trap, other than that, how far goes fair use?

Also DMCA allowed up til today phone unlocking specificly, so reverse engineering the device and jailbreaking can just be declared part of the unlock process and would be legal even in terms of DMCA again.

I think you can turn it up side down and back, there is not really much which can be done to clear it up really.