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Discuss http://iphoneworldwideunlock.com - Reseller Website at the General - Hackint0sh.org; Originally Posted by hak Part of the ethics question is that Trash is pre-selling a ...
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hak View Post
    Part of the ethics question is that Trash is pre-selling a product that he is not sure of the delivery. The questions are: has he received a proforma invoice? Amount to transfer via bank details? If they haven't confirmed that they are selling him anything, then how can he even presell something he has no guarantee of obtaining (let alone whether or not the software exists or not). Let him get the proforma invoice, delivery time, bank info, etc. Then we are kosher.
    Have you ever seen presales for PS3, Xbox 360 or Wii on ebay. People preorder with a local retailer with no guartantee they will receive a unit. They then sell their preorder to the highest bidder. Alternatively they sell the actual unit that they have no guarantee of receiving at sometimes double or treble the cost.

    The only way it is unethical is in that they are out to screw some family who wants the item out of their hard earned cash. They create a shortage of the product and then cash in.

    Trash is selling at a reasonable price, not creating a shortage and not screwing anyone over (at least they haven't and hopefully won't). If it weren't for trash, how do you suppose the likes of you or I would actually get our hands on the software unlock? I don't have a spare $1800 to risk in the hope that I could sell the licences on.

    Would it be unethical had iphonesimfree opened up for preorders direct to public, taking your cash now and promising to deliver tomorrow?


  2. #32
    hak
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluzion View Post
    Why don't you just stop crying and not even bother reading these threads?

    I don't understand some people. He's not asking for a payment and simply trying to get the software unlock out as soon as possible. If all goes well, we'll have a software unlock in the next couple days. If not, we'll be stuck with our hardware unlock. Worst case scenario if you do pre-order (which I have) and it doesn't work out - you lost ten seconds of your life for clicking "Buy Now".
    I think you should grow up and respect other people's opinions. The reason these forums exist is that people can express their opinion and have healthy discussions. Just because you don't like what I am saying, you don't need to flame.
    Like I said I am not against Trash selling a software unlock. Just want him to be sure it exists and that he has a right to sell it. It's not going to take any longer for people to obtain it if all his ducks are in a row!

  3. #33
    Respected Professional Array Frisky Dingo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by hak View Post
    Your point #4 is why most will need to send the iphone in. You need to jailbreak the phone to install the app. Aside from the few hundred who frequent this forum, the thousands who want the unlock won't be technical enough to do this, and the lightly technical who screw somethiing up will need support.
    its as simple as clicking a button on the computer and holding down the power+home button! if they can read they can do it!

  4. #34
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    Ah well, a lot of flaming A lot of fuss over this holy grail of unlocking I suppose.

    I for one wont place an order until others have confirmed this working, and then I will probably wait for the european launch of the phone, then see if the unlock will work with that model (it might be different, it might not. And that's NOT saying it will include diff. features, just diff. hardware revisions).

    Thank you for this service Trash!

  5. #35
    hak
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederic View Post
    Have you ever seen presales for PS3, Xbox 360 or Wii on ebay. People preorder with a local retailer with no guartantee they will receive a unit. They then sell their preorder to the highest bidder. Alternatively they sell the actual unit that they have no guarantee of receiving at sometimes double or treble the cost.

    The only way it is unethical is in that they are out to screw some family who wants the item out of their hard earned cash. They create a shortage of the product and then cash in.

    Trash is selling at a reasonable price, not creating a shortage and not screwing anyone over (at least they haven't and hopefully won't). If it weren't for trash, how do you suppose the likes of you or I would actually get our hands on the software unlock? I don't have a spare $1800 to risk in the hope that I could sell the licences on.

    Would it be unethical had iphonesimfree opened up for preorders direct to public, taking your cash now and promising to deliver tomorrow?
    Actually there is a difference. The retailers are sure that the product exists. Secondly they are certain their head office has orders in that is acknowledged by the manufacturer. What the preorder customer does with his pre-ordered unit is private business, but the thing to remember is that an actual product prototype has been widely demonstrated and is from manufacturers who have the reputation of delivering on such products in the past (ie., Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony). The same criteria here does not exist. The question about ethics of iPhonesimfree is not the same. They alone know whether they have a product or not and if they do then it would be ethical. If it didn't exist, then you know they are crooks. However in Trash's case, he is not making the product, nor has he seen the product, nor does he have any control over the product (or delivery time), nor has he been confirmed the product. Whole different ball game.
    Like I said, I want the software unlock just as much as the next guy. We are all desperate for it but we shouldn't let our desparation cloud our judgement. It won't be any worse if we make sure our ducks are in a row before we start selling or pre-selling something. Let it come out tomorrow and we will buy!
    Last edited by hak; 09-03-2007 at 08:35 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisky Dingo View Post
    if they can read they can do it!
    Judging by some of the posts, that can be a mighty big IF...

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    hak, as you know, Trash is not telling people that he has the application or that it will work. He is not trying to deceive anybody. What Trash is trying to do is to make sure that there is enough demand so that he or she can place an order with IPSF. And, if all goes well, he or she will make some money. Yes, people can state, "I will pay x for it", but they will be under no obligation when the time comes to pay. And some will have an excuse, such as "My dog ate my money" or "I want proof that this will work with an update", and they know fully well that providing such guarantees is not possible. By going through ebay, all parties are protected. The ebay buyer does not have to pay until Trash confirms that the app works. If the app does not work, then the ebay buyer will not have to pay. If the app does not work, Trash will have to make a claim against IPSF, but he or she will not demand the money from the ebay buyers. If the app works and Trash delivers it, he or she will get paid by the ebay buyers since there is a contractual obligation to do so. I do not want to try the hardware unlock method since I do not want to fry my phone - and it may not work once Apple updates the firmware. I do not want to use the TurboSim method because it seems like you have to have the SIM card for the provider to test it - I am on AT&T's network, so I do not have a SIM for another provider. However, I will be going to Europe in October, and I want to be able to purchase any SIM card and to use it with the iPhone without any problems and without needing to pay AT&T an exorbitant amount of money in roaming charges. For me, that is worth $50.00. If the software unlock will not work after the Apple update, I will not update my phone until I return from Europe. I am not in need of downloading iTunes directly on my iPhone - if that is Apple's new great "feature". So, as long as the unlock works for a couple of months, that is fine with me. If it works for a longer period of time, I will be extremely content. I understand your point, but at this time, Trash will not have any confirmation from IPSF, as IPSF does not seem to be the most organized company. But that does not mean that they have not found a way to unlock the iPhone. We will see - hopefully sooner than later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hak View Post
    Actually there is a difference. The retailers are sure that the product exists. Secondly they are certain their head office has orders in that is acknowledged by the manufacturer. What the preorder customer does with his pre-ordered unit is private business, but the thing to remember is that an actual product prototype has been widely demonstrated and is from manufacturers who have the reputation of delivering on such products in the past (ie., Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony). The same criteria here does not exist. The question about ethics of iPhonesimfree is not the same. They alone know whether they have a product or not and if they do then it would be ethical. If it didn't exist, then you know they are crooks. However in Trash's case, he is not making the product, nor has he seen the product, nor does he have any control over the product (or delivery time), nor has he been confirmed the product. Whole different ball game.
    Like I said, I want the software unlock just as much as the next guy. We are all desperate for it but we shouldn't let our desparation cloud our judgement. It won't be any worse if we make sure our ducks are in a row before we start selling or pre-selling something. Let it come out tomorrow and we will buy!
    I don't think were going to agree on whether it's ethical or not. We could be here all day. I think we should just agree to disagree otherwise I won't love you in the morning.

    BTW, you like lining up your ducks dont you

  9. #39
    Respected Professional Array Trash's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacer View Post
    I want to repeat hak's question: Have you received the proforma invoice and bank details? Did iphonesimfree contact you? Did you transfer the money to iphonesimfree or do we have to wait weeks?
    Sorry guys needed a few hours sleep here.

    I still havent heard anything from IPSF and have just emailed them again for the 14th Time with urgent request for them to contact me. I am guessing anyone else who has ordered in bulk would be in the same boat. I will keep trying until any news breaks on this.

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    Respected Professional Array Trash's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by hak View Post
    So you are saying that he is not taking any money until he has the software? When you prepay using PayPal on Ebay, so PayPal does not take any money from your payment sources until he processes the payment? I am just asking for clearification.
    thanks.
    Yes you can pre pay through paypal but i am not accepting the payments until the software has been confirmed and ordered.

    Buy on Ebay now - http://search.ebay.com.au/_W0QQsassZeightsixtyseven


 

 
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