Originally Posted by Zf_

well, the difference is that in this case, the "bad guys" are already inside the device with almost total control

worst case scenario IMO, we'll have to skip all future baseband updates ... big deal

I think you're right Zf. This device is now officially pwned. I figure we'll end up having to use unofficial firmware updates with the bad bits (baseband updates to re-SIM lock phones and the like) stripped out. But we're not going to get suddenly locked out of our iphones.

Apple's job isn't to stop people from hacking their iphones, it's to keep it annoying enough that it's a niche phenomenon so it doesn't affect their relationship with AT&T/O2/other carriers. They don't mind more people buying iphones and using them on other networks per se, but they would make more money if those people actually switched to AT&T (which I will never do, as AT&T sucks rocks here in New York) due to their contract structure where AT&T pays Apple a big chunk of money for every new iphone subscription.

Originally Posted by shadowmatt

So im not given a choice of which mobile provider I can go with, even though Im paying retail price for the phone.

No you are not. You sign the contract with O2 and Apple and thats you for 18 months at 55 quid a month for 'unlimited' usage (1400 pages a day).

Given that EDGE availability is only for 30% of UK - you will have issues when, for instance, driving from London to Wales.

Looks like Apple wanted a quick launch in the UK, O2 were prepared to get some dusty old 2.5G equipment out, and increase market share.

Interesting that O2 were the 'preferred provider' - I reckon the truth of the matter is that the other operators stood their ground and refused to give Apple a slice of the cake.

I understand im not officially allowed to pick a carrier or unlock the phone, but Im saying that under UK / Europe law that I might be entitled to.

Same as Apple is being investigated for its DRM and locking people to the iPod. The French for one will fight it.

If apple brakes the unlock there might be a class action law suit but Im not sure if we would win.
The DMCA allows you to hack a phone to unlock it and not get sued for doing it. But does not say that cell providers must unlock the phone for you, or cant break the hack that you make.


http://www.uninnovate.com/2006/11/23...our-cellphone/

I think that Steve has a point about unauthorised apps running on the phone which could affect customer experience...

Think about how running ssh is draining batteries faster on unlocked phones and how if you didn't know to switch it off once you complete what you are doing, you would have a significantly worse experience than you expected in terms of battery life..

Apple are a big entity - that have to cater to Joe Average, not guys like us...

So they provide an authorised sandbox for development which can never affect core aspects of the phone... that is not actually a bad thing - right know we have the best of both worlds and I think it will stay this way...

Apple will say one thing and allow another since it keeps everyone happy and we give them a free petrie dish to look into...

Think OSX on PC hardware.. it can be done, it is done, but not to any great degree and Apple wastes zero resources on preventing it...

Originally Posted by NevilleGently

I think that Steve has a point about unauthorised apps running on the phone which could affect customer experience...

Think about how running ssh is draining batteries faster on unlocked phones and how if you didn't know to switch it off once you complete what you are doing, you would have a significantly worse experience than you expected in terms of battery life..

Apple are a big entity - that have to cater to Joe Average, not guys like us...

So they provide an authorised sandbox for development which can never affect core aspects of the phone... that is not actually a bad thing - right know we have the best of both worlds and I think it will stay this way...

Apple will say one thing and allow another since it keeps everyone happy and we give them a free petrie dish to look into...

Think OSX on PC hardware.. it can be done, it is done, but not to any great degree and Apple wastes zero resources on preventing it...

Very true. Apple's main customers are not us. They are Joe Average who just wants to do what Apple have designed it for.

Originally Posted by syntrak

Jobs mentioned that they didnt want to open the phone for 3rd party apps due to viruses.

Err..I thought it ran OS X - last count there were a handful of viruses for OS X...so wheres the problem ?

IMO the hacked iPhones are the single biggest possibility for an OS X worm right now. The version of OS X used on the iPhone doesn't use NetInfo for user account authentication - it uses a simple passwd file, with everything running as root, which has a password (dottie) that *everyone* knows.

Any less-technical user who uses GUI tools to unlock his/her phone and doesn't change the root password will be effectively an open ownable unix device as soon as it connects to the GPRS / EDGE network wherever you go.

The iPhone OS X, with the tools required to unlock it, is simply not as secure as desktop OS X. If you leave your unlocked iPhone running an SSH server, with default passwords, then you're not only a fool but leaving the device open to total abuse by any malicious asshole who wants to be the 'first' to create an OS X 'worm'...

It'd only affect the small number of cracked iPhones, and most hackers here will have changed their passwords anyway, but you can see why teh Steve is pointing this out.

At least the GUI tools like iNdependence explicitly allow you to change passwords - it should be a mandatory step in unlocking IMO though

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ne_launch.html

Meanwhile, Jobs acknowledged that third-party developers have started to produce several intriguing, yet unofficial iPhone applications. He said Apple is looking at some of them closely, especially those that don't require a connection to the Internet. It's likely that those applications would be the first of any to receive an official endorsement from Apple, according to Jobs' comments, as those that require Internet access could threaten the 'high standard' of experience customers have come to expect with the iPhone.

I don't think Apple's crying about the iPhone is being unlock! Steve is all smiling and happy right now . come on....with all the unlock things that's is going right now it mean more sell for the iPhone....it not gonna hurt Steve.

Originally Posted by shadowmatt

I cant see apple relocking sim free phones. For 3 reasons.

1. While they comment on hackers, cracking firmware etc..., they didnt mention 1000's of sim free iphones in Apples customers hands and the bad customer relations / PR that relocking the phone would bring.

2. The legallity. Especially in America where a class action can grow very quickly. I cant remember another phone provider or network relocking a phone. Especially given our legal rights allow us to have unlocked phones.

3. The contracts / terms & conditions seem to me to be on the close to illegal side. Monopolistic is some ways, going against regional laws on sim free phones, AT&T will unlock any other phone, just not the iPhone. The fact the phone isnt network subsidised but still network locked could raise legal questions.

If they do relock the phone and continue to after the uk launch for new customers / updated firmware I might make a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading and OffCom or whoever this falls under.

I got an N91 and after 2 months 02 unlocked it, I rang up and told them I was selling it and they unlocked it no problem. As the law demands.

You do have the choice to keep your unlocked iPhone and not update you know...