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Discuss According to apple store employee, 1.1.1 unlocks will be bricked in 3 months!?! at the General - Hackint0sh.org; I'm having a hard time understanding why Apple and its stores are being so adamant ...
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    I'm having a hard time understanding why Apple and its stores are being so adamant about this.

    A $400 sale is a $400 sale. According to iSuppli, a large part of that is pure profit. It increases revenues and adds to the "brag figure" that Steve will tout at the next keynote.

    Yes, there's some lost revenue If the customer doesn't connect to AT&T, but if it's a tourist taking it out of the country they would never have connected to AT&T anyway, whether they'd bought the iPhone or not.

    So it's $400 more for Apple than the alternative. And one closer to the 10,000,000 goal post.

    They could just smile and take the money. But with this attitude, they are giving a really sour impression of the company.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jhollington View Post
    My point is that there is
    This isn't the case.... Trying to prevent iPhones from being unlocked in the future? Sure. Trying break existing phones? Hardly.
    There's a very thin line between deliberately breaking our phones, and doing nothing to help if they are broken by them accidentally. They could so easily have offered a service along the lines of "if you come back into the Apple fold and take out a phone contract we'll do a factory reset on your phone" or even offered this service for say 50 bucks at an Apple Store.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotmike View Post
    I'm having a hard time understanding why Apple and its stores are being so adamant about this.

    A $400 sale is a $400 sale. According to iSuppli, a large part of that is pure profit. It increases revenues and adds to the "brag figure" that Steve will tout at the next keynote.

    Yes, there's some lost revenue If the customer doesn't connect to AT&T, but if it's a tourist taking it out of the country they would never have connected to AT&T anyway, whether they'd bought the iPhone or not.

    So it's $400 more for Apple than the alternative. And one closer to the 10,000,000 goal post.

    They could just smile and take the money. But with this attitude, they are giving a really sour impression of the company.
    Absolutely. I get so cross with people who imply that I am stealing from Apple by having a hacked iPhone. I paid Apple $600 for my iPhone and am not eligible the $100 refund due being overseas. I have never even been given the opportunity to pay AT&T anything, and I am accused of stealing - that is certainly the implication of Apple's attitude to this whole affair, and also the attitude of the uninformed Apple customer who knows no better. It gets me so irritated. Despite my feeling I am still prepared to sign up with O2 in the UK on November 9th, however, I am probably going to be denied the opportunity of spending yet more money with Apple's partner and therefore indirectly Apple - penalised because I have been an avid supporter of the iPhone from Day 1 and paid over the odds to be so (I actually paid a total of about $1000 for mine of which 600 went to Apple). This is outrageous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyd View Post
    Absolutely. I get so cross with people who imply that I am stealing from Apple by having a hacked iPhone. I paid Apple $600 for my iPhone and am not eligible the $100 refund due being overseas. I have never even been given the opportunity to pay AT&T anything, and I am accused of stealing - that is certainly the implication of Apple's attitude to this whole affair, and also the attitude of the uninformed Apple customer who knows no better. It gets me so irritated. Despite my feeling I am still prepared to sign up with O2 in the UK on November 9th, however, I am probably going to be denied the opportunity of spending yet more money with Apple's partner and therefore indirectly Apple - penalised because I have been an avid supporter of the iPhone from Day 1 and paid over the odds to be so (I actually paid a total of about $1000 for mine of which 600 went to Apple). This is outrageous.
    no, this is actually called "the geek tax"

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    It would have to be a hardware thing to work as the software is wiped clean during a restore. If it was hadware I think someone would have noticed it by now!
    Or maybe its just 1.1.1 software and resets once you restore. Im sure most people on this fourm would restore once in a three month period.
    Last edited by gaz919; 10-12-2007 at 03:46 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyd View Post
    Absolutely. I get so cross with people who imply that I am stealing from Apple by having a hacked iPhone. I paid Apple $600 for my iPhone and am not eligible the $100 refund due being overseas. I have never even been given the opportunity to pay AT&T anything, and I am accused of stealing - that is certainly the implication of Apple's attitude to this whole affair, and also the attitude of the uninformed Apple customer who knows no better. It gets me so irritated. Despite my feeling I am still prepared to sign up with O2 in the UK on November 9th, however, I am probably going to be denied the opportunity of spending yet more money with Apple's partner and therefore indirectly Apple - penalised because I have been an avid supporter of the iPhone from Day 1 and paid over the odds to be so (I actually paid a total of about $1000 for mine of which 600 went to Apple). This is outrageous.
    The average Apple user is an idiot who thinks that he's different because he's told that he is so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotmike View Post
    I'm having a hard time understanding why Apple and its stores are being so adamant about this.
    Well, as I said in an earlier post, despite the fact that some Apple employees may certainly go overboard in their approach, I think the real corporate policy is that Apple wants to make sure that customers aren't confused about what they are and aren't getting out of the deal.

    Remember, from Apple's point of view, it's difficult to distinguish between an experienced and technically-savvy person buying an iPhone and somebody who just wants the coolest new device and has no idea that they either can't use it in their country without unlocking it, or expects that the unlock is something really easy.

    After all, look how many people here on Hackint0sh have applied the various unlocks with little idea about what they're really doing. Apple doesn't want to be in any way responsible for that, or even associated with it, so they're simply throwing out the standard disclaimers.

    They're not refusing to sell the iPhone, since you're correct that a sale is a sale, but at the same time, they don't want customers buying an iPhone and then complaining to or about Apple because they somehow mistakenly thought that it was Apple's problem that they can't hook it up on a network other than AT&T.

    It's more a question of Apple wanting to be able to say, "Look we told you this wouldn't work, and you decided to buy it anyway, so don't come complaining to us."

    According to iSuppli, a large part of that is pure profit.
    Although not directly related, this is another huge point of contention that I have with everybody's assumptions about the iPhone (and iPod) whenever these iSuppli teardowns come out. I'm getting sick of people reading these iSuppli reports and then jumping on the bandwagon and assuming that Apple is reaping huge profits and ripping everybody off.

    Of course Apple is making a profit, and they're certainly entitled to do so, but it's not as large as many seem to want to think. Even if the iSuppli teardowns are 100% accurate, it's important to keep in mind that any product costs far more to produce and assemble than merely the sum of its parts.

    At a basic level, you have labour/manufacturing costs, packaging, warehousing, distribution, and retail sales to pay for (since Apple has their own retail stores, they're essentially paying for their own complete distribution chain from production to retail). These are all direct related costs and affect the net profit that is realized from each iPhone sold.

    Then, after all of those costs are factored in, consider the research and development that went into the iPhone (and is hopefully going into the next model), as well as all of the company's other overhead.... They do have to keep the lights on, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyd
    There's a very thin line between deliberately breaking our phones, and doing nothing to help if they are broken by them accidentally.
    Well, keep in mind that if you had not modified your iPhone and bricked it, it's still more or less covered under warranty. In fact, with the exception of an actual unlocking solution, there's little Apple can do to identify an iPhone that had simply been jailbroken or hacktivated.

    In the case of the unlocking solution, the reality is that Apple is not incorrect when they stated that the iUnlock/AnySIM solution does modify the iPhone in a non-supported manner. In this case, it's really not worth Apple's time and effort to try to work around an issue that was deliberately created by the end user by doing something relatively significant the underlying EEPROM.

    Again, back to my computer/BIOS example: If you were to find some "hack" for your Dell computer that made it doing something unsupported by Dell, but had to flash the ROM BIOS to do this, and then the next version of Windows crashes your computer because the patch isn't compatible, whose fault is this, really? Do you think that Dell is going to be particularly eager to fix your computer under warranty in this situation?

    They could so easily have offered a service along the lines of "if you come back into the Apple fold and take out a phone contract we'll do a factory reset on your phone" or even offered this service for say 50 bucks at an Apple Store.
    While I think it would be great for Apple to offer such a service, and is perhaps shortsighted of them not to have done so to at least re-encourage people to come back in and legitimately sign with AT&T, they probably decided that they really couldn't justify a business case for doing so.

    Let's face it, most people would have signed with AT&T already if they could have, or wanted to. If the original iPhone wasn't an inspiration to do that in the first place, an offer of coming back and getting your iPhone repaired isn't necessarily going to be that much more of an incentive.

    So while it would have been a very nice idea, I can certainly see why they might not particularly care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyd View Post
    Apple are taking all this incredibly seriously. I noticed today in the Sheffield (UK) Apple store a notice on the main desk warning customers about unlocking iPhones and the dangers thereof. This wasn't just a sheet of paper, but a laminated card in a stand. And this 4 weeks before they are even selling it.

    What I find so galling about this whole affair is that the very reason the hacking community exists is because we are typically loyal supporters of Apple hardware and are prepared to pay a premium in terms of hassle/time/money for early adoption. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
    Ah, Meadowhall! I may be in Sheffield in early December and was planning on trotting my unlocked 1.1.1 iPhone around for them to see. Love the laminated card!

    To be fair, there are alot of issues surrounding the unlock and activation issues, and if you don't know what your're doing (at least right now) it can be confusing and frustrating. So is it fair for Apple to say that unlocked iPhones may have problems with upgrades, etc.? Yes. Is there a time-bomb embedded in the iPhone -- I doubt it -- I just set my clock ahead to March '08, rebooted, and I'm pleased to report that my iPhone is still working.

    Even if the "clock" for the alleged bomb was the "usage" indicator on your settings screen, I find that this goes back to 0 when you restore, so that wouldn't be an effective clock.

    It's much more likely that a future upgrade (which is always optional) would cause problems for unlocked iPhones, but the degree to which the dev team is digging through the 1.1.1 software suggests to me that so far, the cat has got the mouse (or vice versa).

    (P.S. I see that neither the Blades nor the Owls are having a particularly good time of things this year. Maybe they need some unlocked iPhones to pick up their play.

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    Folks, is this really worth 5 pages?

    Shouldn't "we" be unlocking 1.1.1 at this time instead of talking about the apple employee and the timebomb?


    Ummm, was she a hottie?

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    Talking

    It's been a couple of months, but after unlocking my phone I was in the Apple store and the employee I showed it too actually thought it was pretty cool!

    Either they've changed things, or, like most everything else, Texas is just different!


 

 
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