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Discuss [1.1.3] Follow up on jailbreak news and SDK speculation at the General - Hackint0sh.org; I know this is a long post, but I think it raises some good points ...
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    Senior Professional Array slimnickyy's Avatar

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    Lightbulb [1.1.3] Follow up on jailbreak news and SDK speculation

    I know this is a long post, but I think it raises some good points worth consideration. I admit straight away that it's based upon loose evidence and mainly speculation, and therefore would not appreciate flames. If you disagree with me, fine, but I don't necessarily need to hear about it.


    After reading about the restricted application mode on 1.1.3, I got to thinking about the official SDK. I don't think the restricted mode is due to the jailbreak, but it's how the OS is being engineered to work in order to accommodate official apps.

    Info on the restricted mode:
    - http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008...lbreak-debate/
    - http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/01/2...etails-emerge/
    - http://www.iphonematters.com/article...jailbreak_791/


    Here's why I think this is how apps are supposed to run, and also on why I think it'll get worse. Official SDK apps are likely to require a signature by Apple to run (http://developer.apple.com/iphone/de...arty_apps.php). I believe that native iphone apps (such as maps, etc) will too be signed. I think the goal is for only official, signed apps to run. Therefore either 1.1.3 is the new OS for apps and the signature requirement is currently off (or selective, i.e. it knows when an SDK app is loaded and checks it) or 1.1.3 is mostly the new structure for the official OS that supports SDK apps with final features omitted or not yet complete so that Steve could get out some updates at Macworld.

    I don't think Apple intends for people to use the SDK to create apps that anyone could download from a 3-rd party website and install (as they could be malicious). Why else would Steve say what was said above in his release and further during the Keynote speaking about charging $0-$5 for apps. The price structure would indicate distribution from Apple.

    As noted above, they are keen on signing apps, and this would imply that only signed apps will run. How will they implement this? Well the most obvious way is to consider how they currently distribute content (apple.com, iTunes). It only makes sense, as that way, using your apple ID, you can download and install apps ($0 to $5) and if the app costs money they can use your iTunes billing information to bill you without any issues. Further they can track your downloads, meaning that if you have to restore the phone in the future, whether from a wayward firmware upgrade, or if you have the phone replaced under warranty, you're able to "recover" your apps via your apple ID/iTunes, etc.

    You may ask then: how can you develop apps without testing them? Simple. Include a virtualised iphone OS with the SDK. You didn't think they'd give you access to the actual iphone OS did you? This way, once you've created your app that works fine in the fake iphone you then submit it to apple who will certify and sign it. From there onto to apple.com. Maybe they'll even have an app like itunes store on the iphone itself, or use itunes, but regardless this will go through apple as they need to be able to track and bill you easily and also they have to sign it.

    What does this mean? Well I think this means there's no use saving the jailbreak, because if installer.app does work on 1.1.3 and 1.1.3 is the SDK OS then we're fine. The OS will recognise an SDK app and check its signature and if it's good it'll run. This cannot be changed without an update to the OS. It's either already there or not. Alternatively, and if I were Apple this is how I'd do it -- they release an update that will implement the complete OS and SDK support. This OS will ship with the same native apps (maybe a new app store), however this time these native apps are also signed by apple. If an app isn't signed it doesn't run.

    Whether I'm right or not about all apps requiring signatures to run in the future (worst case scenario) there is little doubt SDK apps will have this signature and that distribution is likely directly from apple. And of course at any time in the future apple could add signatures to native apps as well that would effectively lock out any non-approved app.

    In summary I think the SDK will roll out with an update with everything signed, or possibly 1.1.3 (or an update) will accept SDK apps and recognise them as such and only require them to have a signature, however why would Apple limit itself when it could kill off all un-official apps is beyond me.

    In the end, we don't really know how the SDK will be implemented and how the apps are to be distributed. However we do have some evidence of a revised OS in 1.1.3 and I don't think all the bits are currently included. We have good evidence from Jobs himself that SDK apps will be signed, so why stop at SDK apps? Finally going by how apple currently distributes add-ons, and its insistence on stability, security, and signing apps, it's likely these will all go through apple.com or iTunes or a new App on the phone using iTunes billing information to download them. Due to all of this, I don't think that 1.1.3 is the final SDK OS, and some of its changes are being seen already.



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    I think the main thing the devs are worried about is unlocking the iPhone. SDK or not, Apple is not going to allow unlocking applications to be distributed. Now if the dev team was to release the jailbreak now, Apple will patch the OS and lock us out again. If they wait, then SDK will be released and we have best of both worlds. Official SDK applications that are signed from Apple, and non official jailbreak apps that allow us things like unlock and such which Apple doesn't condone but is fully legal.

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    It isn't going to prevent the inevitable though which is Apple closing the exploits, then what for new iPhone users who want unlocks (I personally dont need an unlock).

    The first post illustrates exactly WHY the jailbreak should be released, Nothing they do to keep it private will make apple stop with Security, and more so if they are planning to release SDK Apps.

    SDK Apps would need to be verified by Apple but I also have to say what about companies developing 3rd Party applications for Apples Mac / MacBook OSX? Why make the iPhone so alien to this?
    O2 UK iPhone Tarrif
    1.1.4 Firmware Jailbroken / Unlocked

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    Senior Professional Array slimnickyy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsmumbo View Post
    I think the main thing the devs are worried about is unlocking the iPhone. SDK or not, Apple is not going to allow unlocking applications to be distributed. Now if the dev team was to release the jailbreak now, Apple will patch the OS and lock us out again. If they wait, then SDK will be released and we have best of both worlds. Official SDK applications that are signed from Apple, and non official jailbreak apps that allow us things like unlock and such which Apple doesn't condone but is fully legal.
    Well this will only be true if 1.1.3 is the final SDK OS. Further, if it is and 3-rd party apps currently work on 1.1.3 then SDK apps won't change that fact. Only an update to the OS could change this and the whole premise of my post is that I think an updated OS requiring signed apps (possibly all apps) is coming. The Dev's appear to be hoping this update will overlook their JB method, which, I guess is possible.

    However they announced a JB and are now giving blogs minor details. This means Apple has some hints and is most definitely looking for a holes. 1.1.3 is from mid-December, and the SDK isn't due until mid to late-Feb (hopefully earlier, not later). Either way 1.1.3 is older and the next update is likely to change quite a few things, including hole fixes and as my post above surmised the possibly of requiring all apps to be signed (otherwise they do not run). Ridiculous? Maybe, but why wouldn't they do this since they're already going to do it for SDK apps? This would end software unlocks (or make them very hard) and end un-official apps that would compete with their new business model. So I think the dev team is being overly optimistic and are setting us all up for a big disappointment as this new signature scheme is inevitable and the evidence of a new way the OS handles apps is starting to show up in 1.1.3.

    I think the next update will complete this scheme, and if for some reason Apple wasted two months of development on the next firmware and missed the hole it knows exists, the jailbreak, even if preserved would be pointless if they implement the requirement for all apps to be signed in order to run. Honestly, if 1.1.3 is as far as I can go in the interim I will be happy since the community can still offer quality applications.
    Last edited by slimnickyy; 01-22-2008 at 11:52 PM.

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    J to the T. Shaken, not Stirred Array thecompkid's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by iphonedev View Post
    It isn't going to prevent the inevitable though which is Apple closing the exploits, then what for new iPhone users who want unlocks (I personally dont need an unlock).

    The first post illustrates exactly WHY the jailbreak should be released, Nothing they do to keep it private will make apple stop with Security, and more so if they are planning to release SDK Apps.

    SDK Apps would need to be verified by Apple but I also have to say what about companies developing 3rd Party applications for Apples Mac / MacBook OSX? Why make the iPhone so alien to this?
    It's all about consumer expectations. The average person expects their computer to be open to whatever they want to do to it, Apple would be going bankrupt if they ever decided to lock down their Mac OS X computers. In the same sense, consumers expect their phones to "just work", and they want functionality, but they aren't about to tolerate crashes and lockups just because of some crappy developer. Unfortunately, I agree with Jobs on this one. Our community is great and all, but I find that my iPhone is much more stable, quick, and has better battery life when its unhacked. This also has heavy connections to the fact that the iPhone is Jobs' baby, and he will beat you to death if you mess with it (thank god for anonymous forums :p )


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    The old man can try : ) I'd kick his ass with a PC Laptop just to add insult to injury, oh and install Windows on his precious Uber MAC Book
    O2 UK iPhone Tarrif
    1.1.4 Firmware Jailbroken / Unlocked

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    Can't we distinguish this OS and apply it to the jailbreak?
    I think we can do it, apples smart but were smarter

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    Apple and the Worm... hmm... are we the worms?
    O2 UK iPhone Tarrif
    1.1.4 Firmware Jailbroken / Unlocked

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    i totally agree with post # 2 ... i really dont mind waiting for the jailbreak.. because in a month time i would rather have unlocked jailbroken with fully working sdk than being stuck with 1.1.3 forever or for a long time... people that are saying they should release jailbreak now are either really ignorant or simply because they are on an att contract and dont give 2 shits about unlocking...however this community is for everyone as a whole and for the majority to benefit...that being said i really feel bad for everyone whos stuck on the 4.6 bootloaders and cant software unlock their phones without having to buy extra chips or opening their phones up....so if they waited this long for the unlock you guys can wait another month for the jailbreak...its not the end of the world...
    and how many times have u updated your other cell phones firmware..i can put my money that most of you if not all have never ever updated your other phones firmwares.. but all of a sudden when you have an iphone you guys need to update it...for now enjoy your iphones as it still works as a phone and thats all that should matter to you...and stop complaining everyone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by goudok View Post
    i totally agree with post # 2 ... i really dont mind waiting for the jailbreak.. because in a month time i would rather have unlocked jailbroken with fully working sdk than being stuck with 1.1.3 forever or for a long time... people that are saying they should release jailbreak now are either really ignorant or simply because they are on an att contract and dont give 2 shits about unlocking...however this community is for everyone as a whole and for the majority to benefit...that being said i really feel bad for everyone whos stuck on the 4.6 bootloaders and cant software unlock their phones without having to buy extra chips or opening their phones up....so if they waited this long for the unlock you guys can wait another month for the jailbreak...its not the end of the world...
    and how many times have u updated your other cell phones firmware..i can put my money that most of you if not all have never ever updated your other phones firmwares.. but all of a sudden when you have an iphone you guys need to update it...for now enjoy your iphones as it still works as a phone and thats all that should matter to you...and stop complaining everyone...
    I used to play with Motorolla's so quite a lot : ) (re Firmware)
    O2 UK iPhone Tarrif
    1.1.4 Firmware Jailbroken / Unlocked


 

 
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