The Universal Dock *DOES* have chip in it to activate the TV out. The photo dock you tried with does NOT have this chip. This is the reason for your results. Go and get a Universal Dock and come back when you have tested it.

Why speculate? I have it... I KNOW it is working... I KNOW it has the V106 chip.

I know that the Universal dock works, and that it likely has chips in it. What I don't know for sure is that a chip is involved in enabling video.

It has been shown that using various resistors between pin 10 and GND "tell" the iPods that different docks or accessories are connected. So what I'm suggesting is what many others have: that it is a simple resistor that "tells" the iPod it's connected to a universal dock. When it knows it's connected to that dock, it knows it's OK to output video.

As far as I can tell, there is NO resistor between pin 10 and GND on my Photo Dock. This makes sense, because it was the first one made. Since there wasn't another one with any significant features, there was no need to "tell" the ipod anything about the dock. The Universal Dock, on the other hand, added this resistor setup to simply tell any iPods attached to it that they're connected to a Universal Dock with extra features. It was then up to the iPods to decide what to do with that information.

It is possible, then, that they just told the 6G iPods NOT to output video unless they're connected to a device with one of the "approved" resistors.

I understand that various chips are indeed found on the dock and in the video cable. But as far as I've seen, nobody knows for sure what any of those chips do. I've seen some suggest they're just there for USB communications or charging safety. They are DEFINITELY NOT there to actually pass the video signal, otherwise, I'd need one in my Photo Dock. And as I've mentioned, I can easily get video to come through the Photo Dock with the little trick I described in my last post.

So, I'm simply hoping there is no complex, secure communication between a "chip" on the dock and the iPod itself that enables the video. My hope is that it's a much simpler check of resistance, to see if it's hooked up to an "approved" device. That would mean retrofitting older accessories (like my Photo Dock) would be relatively easy.

Also, I haven't yet found anywhere on the web where Apple actually mentions the chip. Everything I've found are users speculating why these don't output without Apple-branded equipment.

And, as I mentioned in my first post, the iPhone doesn't behave the same way. I can't fake it into working with my "Photo Dock" or the iPod media player I own (http://www.si5.com/products.php?pID=4025.)

This brings up another possibility: that there IS INDEED an authentication chip put into the new cables that the iPhone and iPod Touch use and that the Classic and Nano 3G CAN use.

However, when you plug into an old Universal Dock, the Classic and Nano are allowed to just go by the resistor indicator telling them it's an Apple dock.

If that's the case, the simple resistor trick may be impossible for iPhone, iPod Touch, but may be perfectly possible for the Classic and Nano.

This could be bad news for the Touch crowd, but good enough news for the Classic & Nano folks.

I sure wish I had the equipment and expertise to conclusively test these theories. I hope someone out there does!

I know the TV out on iPhone is enabled by the authentication chip V106 in the Universal Dock. I have been logging the communication between the universal dock and the iPhone. I assume it is the same with touch, but don't know with others.

Another point... you have seen the pictures of the "new" video cables... as you know, the dock connector has pins allocated for video out already (as the iPod photo can send out video through it without any "trick"). There is simply NO REASON that the video cables should contain the V106 chip, if it was just a matter of putting a resistor in it to enable video. What is this chip for in the video cable, if it is NOT for authentication?

Here is a log of data sent to iPhone when it is inserted into the dock (3 times or so). If someone is good at decoding/analyzing the authentication, I could provide better logs.


IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:18 2008

00
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IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:19 2008

FF FF FF 55 03 00 01 02 FA FF 55 03 00 0F 00 EE
ÿ ÿ ÿ U ? ? ? ? ú ÿ U ? ? ? ? î

IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:19 2008

FF 55 03 00 0F 03 EB FF 55 02 00 09 F5 FF 55 02 00 0D F1 FF 55 0E 00 13 00
00 00 0D 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 10 C0
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ë ÿ U ? ? ? õ ÿ U ? ? ? ñ ÿ U ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? À

IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:19 2008

FF 55 04 00 15 01 00 E6
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? æ

IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:22 2008

FF
ÿ

IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:22 2008

55 3C 00 18 F0 0D 00 06 00 10 30 57 7D 8A D6 0E 47 04 79 FA 27 A9 C8 2B E8
33 00 10 8B D0 DA 19 EE 0C 0F E5 6D 47 F8 FB 75 1C 18 EE 00 10 F9 29 21 16
40 91 32 5B 30 DA 61 64 9B 16 F5 F8 CD
U < ? ? ð ? ? ? ? ? 0 W } Š Ö ? G ? y ú ' © È + è
3 ? ? ‹ Ð Ú ? î ? ? å m G ø û u ? ? î ? ? ù ) ! ?
@ ‘ 2 [ 0 Ú a d › ? õ ø Í

IN: Mon Jan 28 14:37:22 2008

FF 55 06 03 0E 04 00 FD 01 E7 FF 55 06 03 08 00 00 00 10 DF
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ý ? ç ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ß

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:20 2008

FF FF
ÿ ÿ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:20 2008

FF 55 03 00 01 02 FA FF 55 03 00 0F 00 EE
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ú ÿ U ? ? ? ? î

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:20 2008

FF 55 03 00 0F 03 EB FF 55 02 00 09 F5 FF 55 02 00 0D F1 FF 55 0E 00 13 00
00 00 0D 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 10 C0 FF 55 04 00 15 01 00 E6
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ë ÿ U ? ? ? õ ÿ U ? ? ? ñ ÿ U ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? À ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? æ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:22 2008

FF 55 3C 00 18 F0 0D 00 06 00 10 76 FC 53 C7 0C 05 1F FD 15 BB 04 E3 17 85
D4 93 00 10 00 4F DB CF B4 A0 22 68 39 AF C0 73 7B DD 8A 34 00 10 87 FB C7
B4 98 59 40 D9 0F F4 78 AE A0 91 EA AE 05
ÿ U < ? ? ð ? ? ? ? ? v ü S Ç ? ? ? ý ? » ? ã ? …
Ô “ ? ? ? O Û Ï ´ * " h 9 ¯ À s { Ý Š 4 ? ? ‡ û Ç
´ ˜ Y @ Ù ? ô x ® * ‘ ê ® ?

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:23 2008

FF 55 06 03 0E 04 00 00 01 E4 FF 55 06 03 08 00 00 00 10 DF
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ä ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ß

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:48 2008

FF
ÿ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:48 2008

FF FF 55 03 00 01 02 FA FF 55 03 00 0F 00 EE
ÿ ÿ U ? ? ? ? ú ÿ U ? ? ? ? î

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:48 2008

FF 55 03 00 0F 03 EB FF 55 02 00 09 F5
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ë ÿ U ? ? ? õ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:48 2008

FF 55 02 00 0D F1 FF 55 0E 00 13 00 00 00 0D 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 10 C0 ÿ U ? ? ? ñ ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? À
IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:48 2008

FF 55 04 00 15 01 00 E6
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? æ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:50 2008

FF 55 3C 00
ÿ U < ?

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:50 2008

18 F0 0D 00 06 00 10 74 79 A7 28 69 DE 96 9D 80 DD A5 29 8E 25 B3 E5 00 10
64 AB B0 5F 96 CF 0D B5 13 79 79 9E AB 3E 09 C0 00 10 A0 D2 86 C2 D7 F0 B0
FB BB FA A8 E2 24 D4 D9 FA FD
? ð ? ? ? ? ? t y § ( i Þ – � € Ý ¥ ) Ž % ³ å ? ?
d « ° _ – Ï ? µ ? y y ž « > ? À ? ? * Ò † Â × ð °
û » ú ¨ â $ Ô Ù ú ý

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:49:51 2008

FF 55 06 03 0E 04 00 FE 01 E6 FF 55 06 03 08 00 00 00 10 DF
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? þ ? æ ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ß

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

FF
ÿ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

FF FF 55 03 00 01 02 FA FF 55 03 00 0F 00 EE
ÿ ÿ U ? ? ? ? ú ÿ U ? ? ? ? î

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

FF 55 03 00 0F 03 EB
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ë

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

FF 55 02 00 09 F5 FF 55 02 00 0D F1 FF 55
ÿ U ? ? ? õ ÿ U ? ? ? ñ ÿ U

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

0E 00 13 00 00 00 0D 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 10 C0
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? À

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:07 2008

FF 55 04 00 15 01 00 E6
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? æ

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:09 2008

FF 55 3C 00 18 F0 0D 00 06 00 10 16 1A C8 A1 93 77 54 4F 78 A2 0C 62 09 FD
19 27 00 10 A5 17 10 AC 77 55 54 D8 FF B5 89 F7 0B 24 22 0E 00 10 70 BC 62
AA 57 E6 8D D4 79 62 4C E7 4F 07 33 CE 27
ÿ U < ? ? ð ? ? ? ? ? ? ? È ¡ “ w T O x ¢ ? b ? ý
? ' ? ? ¥ ? ? ¬ w U T Ø ÿ µ ‰ ÷ ? $ " ? ? ? p ¼ b
ª W æ � Ô y b L ç O ? 3 Î '

IN: Mon Jan 28 15:50:10 2008

FF 55 06 03 0E 04 00 81 01 63 FF 55 06 03 08 00 00 00 10 DF
ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? � ? c ÿ U ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ß

Hi Ridax,
Please have a look at: http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/%7Ee002660...e/ipod_ap.html It contains a description of the protocol used by the orginal iPod remote. Your logging has quite some similarities like the start of the command FF 55 and then the length of the command, ending with a checksum. Hope this helps.
P.S. More generalised version can be found at: http://ipodlinux.org/Apple_Accessory_Protocol

Well, Ridax, you have certainly convinced me.

I was also able (before reading your post) to confirm that the resistor method between pins 10 and gnd doesn't work. I got a couple resistors to equal the 570K that the universal dock uses, and checked it with my iPod Classic, and it did nothing.

This is bad news to me. Makes my devices just as useless as I feared they were.

Out of curiosity, where are you reading those signals? Which pins? 18, 19 & 20?

If you can read them, can you also record them and play them back to the device and make it work?

wimwest: I am very familiar with the serial protocol documented and the data I attached above conform to the data format documented. But a lot of transactions in the log above are not documented, especially those that have to do with the authorization.

sideshow: The data is read from the serial port on the dock connector. As you notice from the time stamps in the log, it is a log of 3 different times it is inserted into the dock. Each time, the authorization string changes, so I don't think just playing up an old string would help.

Do you can save logs from iphone and cradle in same time?

example iphone->cradle
cradle->iphone

Slightly off topic, but would it be possible to create some software to enable the output through the dock without the chip telling it to?

If we want to activate the video out without the Apple cable we should work on the IAP.framework

The resident iapd deamon

responsible for activating the video output tells the IAP.framework when a legit Apple Video Cable (for iPhone) is connected (using the Apple iPod Accessories Certificate Authority scheme).

When you press Yes on the "Display on TV ?" popup, it switches from "IAPVideoTVOutAuthorized_Off" value to "IAPVideoTVOutAuthorized_On".

If we can patch the framework to always saying "On", Any video cable connected (AV composite or Component) or Dock with the Y-C (SVideo) will work.

I've noticed that the cable certificate code is sent once to the IAP.framework, if you unplug the cable and quit the video player (or force to quit), it still shows up the "Display on TV ?" popup when you open a video (no cable plugged to the dock connector).